I just wanted to share a very interesting conversation that I had with a Tunisian. A Tunisian (family friend) who is still in Tunisia and married a Tunisian woman, not a foreigner. However he did spend time online talking to people from all over the place. He presents the other side of the story that we have discussed in other threads, but that I thought deserved it's own thread. What is your opinion of these women ( see below) and does what the men are doing still qualify as rattery if it occurs with the likes of a woman like this (again see below). (Names were omitted for privacy reasons) [13:19] : So people do make fun of these women in Tunisia? [13:19] : some do yeah [13:19] : Wow [13:20] : the problem is [13:20] : that nearly most of the women know that Tunisian men are using them, of course not all the men [13:20] : but they don't care [13:21] : i used to talk to a woman from UK got married to a Tunisian man and he left her as soon as he got there [13:21] : That Deborah lady you told me about? [13:21] : she was looking for other men from Tunisia [13:22] : I was like what the fuck? [13:22] : I know that a lot of the women, especially those that are older and those that have money, they do not care and they know they are being used but they like the sex and having a " man" for a while. So when he goes they buy a new one. I don't feel bad for them [13:22] : she said it is alright I kinda like it I have a new man every 2 or 3 years, and that the sex is good [13:22] : It's the ones that really thought they were in a true relationship or marriage and get used that I feel bad for. I just didn't know that so many people in Tunisia were making fun of all the women that met a Tunisian online [13:23] : she said she does not mind that they do leave after 2,3 or 5 years she ll go and get another 1 [13:23] : some women like that [13:23] : Wow [13:24] : do you really think that those women are stupid and don't know [13:24] : they know [13:24]: Some of them do you are right [13:24] : Though there are some that really do not know [13:25] : that many of them already met Tunisian men, but they do keep having relationships with other even they do know they are just using them [13:25] : I remember when I asked her [13:25] : don';t you think he will leave too [13:26] : she said [13:27]: i know [13:27] : but it is okay with me cos i don't have to live the rest of my life with just 1 man it is kinda boring [13:28] : and that she can go to many different places in Tunisia [13:28] : since she is meeting a different guy every time [13:29] : some don't know though that some Tunisian men are lying and for those of course i do feel bad and understand the word *rat* [13:29] : I understand what you mean [13:31] :I know a guy from Jendouba used to sell drugs and use them, went to Hamamet looking for job and he met a very old woman got married, bought him a home in Tabarka and a brand new car just cos he married her [13:32] : as soon as he got to the UK and got the papers he left, with a home, a car, a lot of money and papers [13:32] : she did not do anything [13:32] : I wonder though if she cared? [13:32] : If she knew he would leave or though the would stay with her ? [13:35] : sorry mouna was talking she say hello to you i don't know if that woman cares or not [13:35] : I really don't think all of them don't know [13:35] : i mean you can go online and search [13:35] : and you will find a lot of websites talking about Tunisian men and relationships [13:36] : yet, some just don't care ... And on and on it goes. I thought it was interesting though
I'm sure that is the case with the women we were discussing that are elderly marrying the young Tunisian men... I think those types (that know but don't care and will just find another one_ are probably not a really bad fit.. they are both getting what they want from eachother after all.....
Right. So is he still a rat? Are they both rats? Or is it not rattery and just a marriage of convenience?
Well.. generally speaking as a character description, I would say, yes. They are rats because their mentalities and lifestyles are ENTIRELY self-serving.. HOWEVER.. If BOTH parties are well aware of the circumstances, and mutual benefit.. I cannot see how one could claim to be a "victim." I would not say either party is necessarily commiting a wrong against the other if there is not the misleading and deception used to take advantage of the other's kindness/emotions. These are the really disgusting, sick ones in my opinion.. that have no empathy or compassion for other human beings as long as they are benefiting somehow... If it is a mutual marriage of convenience.. and both are getting what they are seeking from eachother while being aware of the other's intentions without empty promises, lies, games, or false hopes.. then.. idk.. doesn't seem so sadistic... .... maybe they are just both rats who knows :ben: :tongue:
oh! I just now noticed you already suggested maybe they are both rats! LOLLLLLL.. now I feel so unoriginal :blush::ben: a marriage of convenience between two rats is my vote :coffee:
But I have to wonder about the scenario where she knows he's going to leave her ( because it's been done to her before or it's what she expects) but they don't actually discuss that.. I mean who is going to say.. I know you're going to leave me when you get here? So the guy uses his rat lines and quotes... yet she knows it's not for keeps...Definitely not just black and white here.. I mean so confusing LOL
exactly.. thats y I spent so much time on both sides of the fence too.. not enough information. Her expecting it bc its been done to her before is just a common rats justification for his actions.. Lord knows just bc someone has done us wrong in the past.. dsnt mean we feel like it is okay for everyone in our lives to do it again!! haha! If he is using his rat lines and quotes.. he is deceiving and misleading her.. and there may be a shred of hope in her heart that she can believe what he is actually telling her, even though her experience tells her otherwise. In THAT case.. he is a filthy RAT... they will have a marriage of convenience.. but a divorce of mostly HIS convenience... If one is left hurt, disappointed, or betrayed.. I can't understand classifying that as "convenient"
I think the real sexual tourist isn't going to get married to a rat...she will use him for what he is worth and leave him aftewards. Those who get married to a man they know being a rat do have really big issues in their psychology in my humble opinion! I think they all have the hope that he will turn out to be ok if she's giving him what he wants from her, but after all, isn't this behaviour similar to that of women that get beaten up by their several boyfriends or husbands in a row? Working on ones self esteem and solving inner problems would be the only way out. Rats so do flair these willing victims, so to me he is the rat!!!!!
eeeeeek.....I am reading this thinking nooooooo! Are there any genuine tunisian men out there is my question? I think I may have actually met one. 15 months he never asked for anything, spent time getting to know me and my children, always taking time for each of them. We rowed, he tried to walk away but couldnt. Begged me to come to him, for so long and i never did because of the tunisian rat ideology...that was time wasted, he died 2 weeks ago after booking my ticket to come to him. He had been ill for a while, was due in hospital. I know this was true being a sonographer I saw the images of his scan, his name, passable arabic that I now have. We had many talks about how men felt about the foreign women that came out there, but again not all women visiting tunisa want sex. His friends and family have been great with me, still want me to visit his family home and will keep me safe but i am too scared to go, being alone now there. Half of me wants to see where he grew up, lived, and rests. So all I can say is surely there are genuine men out there??? No I am NOT wanting another tunisian man either!!
Well, Tates, we have here one genuine man - Anon...he was considered to be a rat, but he came here and proved that he is not....and some women here are married to good Tunisian men, so they also prove that true love exists in this country...
Tates i am so very sorry for your loss.... I have genuine belief that of course there are good men in Tunisia....... There are good and bad people in every country. The site is TLR so obviously a lot of attention is upon the "rats" and there behaviour..... It will take time to get over your loss Tates.....remember your b/f with kindness and joy in your heart.....Dont taint his memory with any of this rat rubbish, if he did nothing wrong, let him rest in your heart in peace.... Maybe in the future you will find the strength to visit his family, only you will know if and when you can or want to do this... Im sending you a big hug....look after yourself xx Cuddle
Thank you, big tears here, still very raw, only been 2 weeks tomorrow, still can't believe he has gone. expecting a goodmorning text.dinner time text, goodnight text, a quick hello on the phone, he had no web as he had to leave his flat to stay with his parents, he became too ill, we both on bith sides of the ocean didnt want him living alone, the nights i spent sat up with him when he was in pain, but never once did he stop talking to the children, hiding it from them then once they had gone to bed and we were alone, he was almost in tears. I wont ever think he was a rat, I know he loved me, he could have walked away so many time, but he never did, when he did try he stayed trying to be friends, staying in touch with my children, missing us. My only consolation, he knew he was loved and we knew he loved us and he knew I had made the commitment to come to him. Just read the rat stuff as i was unsure of him earlier in the year when he ended it, made me think are they all like that, I know his afternoones when not at work was spent in the cafe, but his nights were spent with me from the moment he got in the flat till we woke in the morning, how do you replace something like that and live with the regretI never had the courage to go to him. So anon.....why was he a rat and then he was not a rat? x
Hi Tates, you know what - remember him as you describe him above, do not tarnish your memories with thoughts as to whether he was a rat or not - it's of no consequence and will not help you in the grieving process. You loved each other - let that be what you remember xxx
Thanks, I am trying, lost my dad in december and he was lovely, used to ring my dad to say hello and ask how he was while he was in the hospital, after he was there just to listen when I cried, or to my son when he wanted to talk. Now we have lost him too and we are all devastated. So I can honestly say I think there was one man out there who was real.x
Thank you Tunisian sun I need them more than I can admit and thanks for the lovely comments, for a lovely man x
My thoughts are with you tates...nothing i will say can take your pain away, only time can heal you... Remember him with love, like i said to you earlier... You experienced something wonderful tates, cherish that thought..... Keep talking to others, dont keep the grief inside yourself ...Use every resource available to get you through this time of loss. I hope you will find comfort soon.......xx
