Met married and now 3 years later

Discussion in 'Ben's Corner' started by neela, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    11,217
    Hi Neela

    Let me clarify: spousal visa is granted to the husband for 2 years..in the uk stamped on his passport on entry is the date for him to return they add on maybe 10 weeks to give the spouse a chance to apply for Leave to remain. he has to reach a criteria meaning that he has to still be living with the spouse/wife and in a good relationship, meaning he has work..and support himself..and wife/family.. in his passport also is stamped no recourse to public funds.. meaning the wife has to support him as he cannot claim social security if he does not work.. that is that the wife's income and financial state has to reach a certain level before a spousal visa is given in the first place.. hence why many do not get this.
    If there is issues in the marriage and they separate before the 2 years is up the wife must right to the border agency with this information and the reason why the marriage is not valid.. if it is proven by the immigration judge that the husband has ulterior motives for marrying the wife the immigration judge curtails the visa.. therefore taking it away and the husband is deported.. that is if they can find him.. problem is that they disappear.. and the wife does not get informed of if he is deported.. I can't stress this enough the visa is his and the wife has no part in the removal or right to information. so she is left in Limbo.. Bearing in mind that these rats have shown their true colours and to different degrees.. some woman have babies, been beaten to a pulp, and in a lot of cases in fear of their life.
    The Rat then goes underground and many friends appear from nowhere and protect him.. therefore can get fraudulent documents and depending on what they have from the wife in the way of utility bills/provisional driving licence, that is a good one, is documents will either allow him to get a bank account as they need a uk address, if they get this or have some documents that say they live at that address they will scam the credit card companies..as they do not have the right to work once the visa has been taken away.. and they are very good at knowing the system.

    Getting back to leave to Remain he will never get this unless he is still living with the wife.. and they know this. many do not jump ship until they have this.. he can apply for Leave to remain under special circumstances.. but this is normally if he has another victim got her pregnant, but even then not normally given.

    Advice...get out before they have Leave to remain as he has won and achieved his goal to remain... Next step for them is British Citizenship after 5 years.. legislation has tightened up here that is why the rats are fishing further afield/Usa etc...

    As you said met married and three years later. I assumed that he did not have leave to remain in Germany.. the process must be different.
    Getting back to your problem:

    I am confused because he doesnt want a divorce and thinks we can be a married couple living separately but still be together (no doubt untill it suits him to change it) I am going backwards and forwards

    He wants his cake and eat it... he does not want all his eggs in on basket... he is going to the unknown and wants his safety net/you!! kept sweet ,in case all goes wrong with his plan. Whatever that is.. Forget what he wants// you will never work it out but believe me it is not in your best interests. Do not wait for him, do not discuss what you are doing with him, silence is your power. You say that he is not on anything jointly with you... but you are aware if you divorce that he might be able to get something?
    Get a good lawyer... he can get nothing from you that he did not buy or put in to the house. If he paid a few utilities so what.. he lived there. He can get nothing from you, I am sorry as I am trying not to hurt you, but if he could gain financially he would still be with you...they go where the money is... they know they have limited time and what they want to achieve within that time, I am sorry again but you have fufilled the part of his plan and therefore not necessary anymore.

    They are pretty sick in the head that they think no matter what hurt they cause/ what degree of pain and hurt they have done/ you can still be friends... they do not care if you re there friend/ not as we know it// this is more that you are not there enemy and fight them..

    You need to be smarter than him now.. find out as much as you can.. start divorce proceedings right away..you cannot stop him now he has what he wants.. but you need to protect yourself and limit the damage..
    You are not weak.. your confusion and love for him is the weakness.. this is the most difficult part.. but you have to act quickly.. I do not think he can divorce you by himself in Tunisia on the fly!!! I think you would also have to appear in person as you both reside in Germany.. or at least have to sign papers in agreement and send back to Tunisia. He is lying when he says he does not want a divorce of course he does...

    Fight him... let go....get on with your life.....Move on...... before the Tunisian new wife aoppears in Germany for a few years till they have enough money to move back to Tunisia and live in there shack.

    I hope this post is helpful. I am sorry if it is simplistic or patronizing and direct... it is not my intention to hurt you.. I have been where you have been but slightly different and it is a long hurtful soul destroying emotional upset than drags on.. I would not wish it on anyone and I hope this will help you to deflect the blows and be clearer in your thinking... Good luck my lovely, you are going to need it.. Hard as it might be.. think with your head not your heart..

     
  2. Laurence

    Laurence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,235
    Likes Received:
    15,161
    A thousand likes Crystal!!! It always hurts me very much when nice women like our Neela are ratted TILL THE BITTER END!!! Because Neela is a sweet caring and loving woman, without any calculating evil ideas...so the rat counts on taking profit of her till the end.

    Neela, get yourself a good lawyer please!
    Courage.
     
    rose711, FoolInLove, Amber and 11 others like this.
  3. Fern

    Fern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Messages:
    721
    Likes Received:
    2,600
    Just wondering how you are doing, Neela. Thinking about you:)
     
    ExNorway, crystal, Npk and 3 others like this.
  4. neela

    neela Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    398
    all is well I am getting on with life, at the moment its status quo with my husband here too many people are still on holiday. I am wanting to move on you know the thread about fat old english ladies gave me a thought , I dont fit the category physically. Yet I was conned and should have walked away and left it as a holiday romance when I think back, I had seen enough in Hammamet should have applied the rules that were clear for me then and the first time I went to Zarzis, nevermind I dont think I ll be going there again in a hurry. :)
     
  5. Laurence

    Laurence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,235
    Likes Received:
    15,161
    Hi Neela, hope you're ding well and got your life on track again!
     
    ExNorway, Npk, Fern and 2 others like this.
  6. neela

    neela Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    398
    have been seeing more clearly now for a few days and have decided I want a clean cut reading here has helped and realizing its a no go I must walk away, today I told him on the phone we should leave each other alone probably not so clever . i wanted to get him to sign an agreement saying we take no finance from each other as in germany when you divorce the one who has more pension units has to top up the other ones pension fund. However will have to see if this can work I know people here do this to prevent complications but thats in cases where tunisians are not involved. I tried to get an appointment with a lawyer who specialises in divorce and the complicatons when one partner is foreign he couldnt take my case as his workload is full!! I am reading and learning and everyone who says you must believe in yourself and do things for yourself is right I feel a weight is lifting from me and I can breath again, fridays were always my worst day of the week over the last couple of months as before that was the day I had a bit of time with my husband. So will see how it is tomorow now that I have made a decision. Am rambling but I am grateful for TLR I should have acted at the beginning of this read but couldnt. I dont want revenge because I believe people get their returns I just want to get on with my life and be happy. Thanks Laurence, crystal and alien for your words of advice am now on track.....
     
    ijs, rose711, alemancita and 7 others like this.
  7. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    11,217
    Hi Neela great to hear from you and that you are getting on with your life... you are right Karma does say what goes around comes back around.. what ever you decide is right for you... I wish you well with a lawyer, and I hope your finances are protected as this is your future...
    Tomorrow is another day... embrace it as your new beginning,,, good luck to you and happy healing... keep posting...we are happy to help....
     
  8. neela

    neela Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    398
    I have now managed to see this man for what he really is shame its taken 1 year! I am cured but it really hurts to think how taken in I was. I am going to England for Xmas and when I get back will see if a new lawyer can help the worst bit is that he gets a share of my pension under german law. However I will keep quiet about what I want to do cant trust him
     
    rose711, alemancita, marilyna and 2 others like this.
  9. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    11,217
    Yes protect yourself.. best advise would be.. if he did not contribute within the marriage this is all that would be considered.. anything before this time he cant touch.. good luck
     
    marilyna and ExNorway like this.
  10. neela

    neela Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    398
    have accepted that I was scammed for 5 years now and know that he would have had no shame in taking money off me if possible tried to get me to lend him money a few weeks ago this was a complete joke for me and i am no longer hurting in any way just laughing shame he didnt try this trick sooner. The idea of divorce is attractive. I have obviously gone and am going through a process that others here have gone through the next step is official I believe.
     
    rose711, alemancita, Fern and 2 others like this.
  11. Kitty Mahboula

    Kitty Mahboula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2014
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    990
    Not only no shame taking your hard earned money, its actually expected because " I am your husband", when it suits, parasites
     
  12. scottish&fly

    scottish&fly Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    70
    ::: Get over it honey. He's a RAT. Treat him as one. Make sure you remain one step ahead :::
     
    alemancita likes this.
  13. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Please note, that under German law, when you have the default marriage setting "Zugewinngemeinschaft" (seperation of estates with sharing of surplus), only the difference in wealth between the first day of marriage and the last day (the day before the divorce) are shared. So, in a 3 year marriage, you only have to give up half of the pension entitlements of these THREE years when a divorce takes place!

    Basically, everything that one owned at the beginning is subtracted from what one owned at the end of a marriage. This is called the "Zugewinn" (surplus) that each one gained during the marriage (inherited wealth is not being counted, this will stay with the one who inherited), it will include pension entitlements, insurances, etc., though.
    Now, the sum (surplus) of one of the spouses is subtracted from that of the other. The one who gained more "wealth" than the other has to surrender 50% of the difference to the the one that gained less.
    There are, though, exceptions that can be considered by the divorce court, eg. a short time marriage, where no sharing will take place - a lawyer will be able to point out the possibilities existing here.

    If you married under "Gütertrennung" (seperation of estates), or you have stated this in the marriage contract, the sharing will not take place - but when you married, and this is the 3rd option, under "Gütergemeinschaft" (unity of estates), things will be less fortunate.
    Please note that when you have married in Tunisia and you have selected no special option in the marriage contract, it will default to "Gütertrennung" (the default in Tunisia, if you have married in Germany, the default would be "Zugewinngemeinschaft").

    Marriage contracts of other countries are valid in Germany, unless they stand against the public order - this is normally not the case for ordinary (default) tunisian contracts, though.

    On the other hand, and this is the bad thing, after a divorce, spouses still will have to support each other, for example when one is earning money and the other isn't - for a specified amount of time and under certain conditions. You will also need to ask a lawyer about this and the conditions under which this will take place.

    Please be aware that when you live in Germany as an EU national, your spouse will not have an english or german resiendy permit but a EUROPEAN one, for which, in detail, other conditions apply regarding continuation and renewal, so neither the english nor the german rules will fully apply here, but the european ones (in Germany you will need, for example a 3 year marriage for an independent residency permit, and spouses are always entitled to social welfare, etc., while in the UK, the rules are different). This is not a trivial thing, you will, again, need a lawyer specialised in this kind of law.
    If you are not earning enough, you are, btw, entitled to help by the german state to pay for lawyer and court (and so is the spouse, the tactic of "dry up someone financially in court" will not work here!).
     
    Npk, CUDDLE, Big Bang Theory and 2 others like this.
  14. neela

    neela Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    398
    I have german nationality so that no doubt means that He has German residency has been here since 2010. we have the Guter trenniung according to the translation of the marriage certificate. we are both working and I do not think we qualify for legal aid. what is a shame is that I now have to pay to become divorced I wish he had to pay all of it instead are well never mind we learn by our mistakes
     
    alemancita and CUDDLE like this.
  15. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    With Gütertrennung and a short term marriage, you will not loose too much. Yes, for a divorce, the help of a lawyer is needed in Germany, however, both spouses can have the same one (and cut the costs in half) in an agreeable divorce.

    There is no blame divorce in Germany, each spouse can request a divorce and it will be granted automatically after proof of 1 year of seperation, post-marriage-support is determined by the court when one partner financially cannot sustain himherself (to prevent social welfare, also when children are involved - in all other cases it depends on the marriage contract).

    In this regard - most likely, you won't have to surrender any pension shares or support, the financial burden will be mostly the divorce itself (lawyer, court).
     
  16. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Indeed, after 3 full years of marriage, he will get a full residency ("unbefristet") even when the marriage is over WHEN he can support himself financially (if the marriage continues and he cannot support himself, he will get additional 3-year-terms ("befristet") only, if he cannot support himself and the marriage is over, he will get a final 1-year-term only) . And a few years later, he can apply for the citizenship (he can do that earliest after 5 years, but only, when he is still married to a german citizen, else it takes 7 or 8 years).
     
    Alien likes this.
  17. Alien

    Alien Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2013
    Messages:
    2,975
    Likes Received:
    5,557
    JEEEEEESUSSS!!! :eek::eek::eek: Only 3 years??!!! :eek:
    For now, I understand why they prefer german women!!!!:eek::Cry:
     
    ijs likes this.
  18. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Actually, it was 2 years before and has been raised to 3 two or three years ago.

    Can be less as well! If, for example, one spouse is being beaten or extorted by the other, the victim can get a residency earlier, example: A man marries a woman from eastern europe and asks her to do anything he wants - else he would divorce her and she would be sent home - this woman could, even after 1 or 2 years, file for divorce and get a residency.

    However, even though this all sounds easy, the problem is that people must support themselves to get and to maintain the residency (as long as it is not a permanent one), and they have to give proof each time they want a continuation. This means at least a NET income of around 700€/month in an official job (including health and retirement insurance and taxes, meaning around 1500€ per month) - but those jobs are in Germany not easy to find for people with a low to medium education who do not speak he language well. :)
     
    rose711, Alien and FoolInLove like this.
  19. kati3366

    kati3366 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    328
    You don't need a net-income oft 700 Euro. It's only important that you get no financial support from the gouvernement.
    And for the 3 years not the date of marriage is important. You must live 3 years in Germany and still live together with your spouse.
     
    Alien likes this.
  20. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    400€ ist the social welfare default, 300€ you have to pay (at minimum) for a flat. This gives together approximately 700€, likely even more. If you earn less, then you are ENTITLED to financial suport (social welfare), and it is not even important whether you claim it or not, it is enough that you are ENTITLED to .
    However, this is not even enough, you also need to have paid the basic ensurances, namely health (every person in Germany must have health insurance) and retirement insurances, and not only just currently, but for a decent time in the past and forseeable future. Only when you fulfill these 3 main conditions, you will be able to get a permanent residence (ie. one that does not need to be continued every couple of years). There is but one important exception - someone who studies or is on job education does not need the retirement insurance (although it is up to the foreign office to decide that).
    The exact same main conditions apply for citizenship, there are a few more conditions though, but they do not have to do with financial things (eg. knowledge of language, democratic system, not being a member or funding an organization that is hostile towards the state).

    To claim a marriage independent residency, this is correct, one must have been married for 3 years in Germany AND (and this important) give proof that the marriage is taking place. When a couple lives in seperate flats it would be, for example, a serious hint (though not necessarily also a proof) that the marriage is not taking place and the foreign office will throughly investigate and only issue a short term limited residency.

    But that leads too far away from the topic - the main point here is that one needs to show proof of a decent net income which would be, according to the numbers above, an absolute and steady (!) minimum of around 700€.
     
    Alien likes this.
  21. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    Note: if one is married, it is much easier, because it is sufficient when the spouse has a net income that is higher than the minimum for 2 persons (plus a retirement fund), in this regard, someone who does not work and does not have any income may be able to obtain a permanent residency - by marriage alone (realistically this will take 3-4 years), even a citizenship can be gained on these grounds.

    Catching a german citizen who is earning well, is, indeed, an easy and fast train to get established in Europe.
     
    Alien likes this.
  22. kati3366

    kati3366 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    328
    I'm German too. And my husband came to Germany 2011 after marriage in 2010.
    He got his permanent residence after 3 years without any question how much money he earns. They only asked if he is still working.

    And I had to sign that we're still living together.

    They gave him permanent residence without asking for other documents.

    He left me directly after he got this paper. Now I live in Tunisia and he lives in Germany.
    Divorce will be here in Tunisia. It's much cheaper and (sometimes) faster than in Germany.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
    rose711, CUDDLE and Alien like this.
  23. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,423
    In this case, most probably, neither he nor you have applied for social welfare before and the foreigner office decided to see no reason to enforce the law. :)
    Usually though, they want to see, at this time or even before, a working contract (and estimate the wage and insurances from it).

    In reality, it doesn't matter much anyway, since there are organizations and persons within the migrant community who "sell" working contracts that are sufficient to get or keep the residency. Normally, the foreigner office has next to no chance in this regard, to catch someone who really does not want to be caught.

    The relevant article is, btw:

    Deutsches Aufenthaltsgesetz (AufenthG) §9c:

    Feste und regelmäßige Einkünfte im Sinne des § 9a Absatz 2 Satz 1 Nummer 2 liegen in der Regel vor, wenn
    1. der Ausländer seine steuerlichen Verpflichtungen erfüllt hat,
    2. der Ausländer oder sein mit ihm in familiärer Gemeinschaft lebender Ehegatte im In- oder Ausland Beiträge oder Aufwendungen für eine angemessene Altersversorgung geleistet hat, soweit er hieran nicht durch eine körperliche, geistige oder seelische Krankheit oder Behinderung gehindert war,
    3. der Ausländer und seine mit ihm in familiärer Gemeinschaft lebenden Angehörigen gegen das Risiko der Krankheit und der Pflegebedürftigkeit durch die gesetzliche Krankenversicherung oder einen im Wesentlichen gleichwertigen, unbefristeten oder sich automatisch verlängernden Versicherungsschutz abgesichert sind und
    4. der Ausländer, der seine regelmäßigen Einkünfte aus einer Erwerbstätigkeit bezieht, zu der Erwerbstätigkeit berechtigt ist und auch über die anderen dafür erforderlichen Erlaubnisse verfügt.
    Bei Ehegatten, die in ehelicher Lebensgemeinschaft leben, genügt es, wenn die Voraussetzung nach Satz 1 Nr. 4 durch einen Ehegatten erfüllt wird. Als Beiträge oder Aufwendungen, die nach Satz 1 Nr. 2 erforderlich sind, werden keine höheren Beiträge oder Aufwendungen verlangt, als es in § 9 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 3 vorgesehen ist.
     
  24. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    11,217
    No you get over yourself.... not constructive.. you gey over it honey??? how condescending...
     
    MH007 likes this.
  25. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    3,820
    Likes Received:
    11,217
    Neela..good luck to u.. hope u are getting there and chin up... good luck my lovely... it can only get better.. believe me it will...cxxx
     
    rose711 and CUDDLE like this.

Share This Page