OK, try this one on for size...

Discussion in 'RAT-DAR' started by NordicOne, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. NordicOne
    Chat With Me

    NordicOne New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    10
    Me: Scandinavian woman, 42 years, converted muslim since quite some time back
    Him: Tunisian man, 39 years, asylum seeker (religious reasons/activity during past president)
    Venue: Capital city, Scandinavian country

    Met this man through his sister at the local mosque where she initially, on her brothers behalf, asked me for information about the ledger that the mosque keeps for parties interested in marriage. I showed here to the information desk and on the way we started chatting, she asked whether I had family or not (which in itself is not uncommon amongst muslim, much of talk with other women tend to start on that end) and when I stated I wasn't married she wondered if I would be interested in having a coffee with her and at a later date, possibly also her brother, at a cafe some time in the future.

    I agreed to it, as I didn't see much harm in meeting, and we exchanged numbers. Again - such an introduction in itself is not out of the ordinary amongst practicing muslims as the first "date" is usually with a chaperone to introduce two potential candidates to one another, for them to get a first impression and then possibly meet some more in public places to get to know one another better. As I left the mosque after praying her brother arrived and we said a quick hello - first impression - a slightly shy man, stocky build, average but nice looks, polite with good islamic manners (i.e. not very much gawking/looking and greeting restricted to a short nod and handshake) - nothing very out of the ordinary.

    Two weeks later I got invited over to the sister for dinner. Her husband working late, their four children in ages from 7 to 15 at home - some with friends, some having dinner with us and we got to talk quite a bit between ourselves. She told me a bit about herself - she and her husband (also Tunisian) has lived in the country for the past 18 years - came over when the local industry needed workers and stayed as the children got born, started school and found friends. 2 older brothers and 5 sisters still live in Tunisia - most working, the oldest brother retired. Parents dead since many years back and hails from Tabarka where most of them still live. No signs or tales of apparent hardships or bad luck - rather the impression of a fairly common middle-class Tunisian family where the nieces/nephews have gone on to university, brothers and brothers-in-law work in places ranging from postal services to telecommunications, sisters and sisters-in-law usually stay-at-home mothers or doing smaller businesses from home.

    Next meeting together with her brother at a local café, bit of chit-chatting in a mix of English, French, German, Arabic and local language. He's been here for the past 2 years waiting for a final response on his request for asylum - understands local language fairly well, but finds it a bit difficult to express himself in it. Not working - as not allowed to under local laws when seeking asylum - but has volunteered to help local friends to pass time (and most likely getting some payment on the side but not registered). Intelligent, well-spoken, no over-the top declarations or suspicious sayings so far.

    A few other meetings in public places - most often meeting after Friday prayer at the local mosque and then going out for a coffee, or a bite to eat. Speaking of things both high and low - both values and thoughts about family, household economy and what marriage/relationsship means to either one - and a whole lot about islam, Quran and related subjects. As I know a fair bit both of Arabic and general islamic etiquette/law/sayings/thinking it's quite evident that he has studied a fair bit in this area and correctly and frequently quotes from both Quran and hadith.

    A few dinners at his sisters house as well - sometimes with him being there when I arrive, sometimes arriving later - and from that quite evident that the children do know him and like to be around him. The 7 year old daughter clings around his neck, the 10 year old son challenges him to arm wrestling and playing games on the XBox, the two older daughters at 13 and 15 a bit more laid back (teenage girls... :D) but still polite and around. Sister's husband has been around as well at some occasions, so nothing indicating that this could potentially be an ex- or current wife "helping" him - which would even be very far-fetched thought, since she has lived here 18 years and there is no reason to doubt it due to her level of local language, the children's mastery of local language along with arabic and french and the presence of wedding photos to her husband showing them both in much younger versions.

    He has all the time been very careful in observering correct etiquette when meeting - as in no unnecessary touching, paying for everything that has been done (even though I am the one working and he is on daily "allowance" due to his migratory status), never asking for anything out of the ordinary (as I've experienced with some muslim-born men assuming the hijab for a converted muslim woman is mostly for show and can be removed when the man asks).

    Contact over the phone and text messages has been to the point with not much of flowery or exceptional language drizzled in. A few "I miss you" from either side, but mostly confined to setting a time for next meeting, stating that either one would be 10-15 minutes late due to traffic, wishes of a good nights sleep, to scratch the cats behind the ears when I get back or a reminder not to forget a daily prayer after coming home late.

    A month or so into dating the subject about marriage has come into the picture - again not out of the ordinary as we have met quite a bit, found common grounds in where we are, what we think and how we reason. Last week we went out to look for a ring (even though an islamic wedding involves no exchanging of rings it is from my understanding tradition to exchange rings in Tunisia) which he promptly paid for when we had found a suitable one.

    My gut reaction both from having been in long-term relations before my conversion, reading this and other sites, and also seeing the spanish/greek/italian versions of the summer-flirts/bezness men is that this man is serious about what he expresses. Of course the option for a permit of residence and work here is a great bonus for him as his asylum request will most likely be rejected due to the changing political/religious climate in Tunisia - something he doesn't deny as he also expresses a deep fondness for his sister already living here.

    But as always - the more eyes that are on to a situation - the greater the possibility of discovering something that could speak of ill intentions. So - here and willing to listen to your gut reactions from what I tell - friend or foe; or rather - rat or a good man?
     
    ijs, Amira, catrin and 5 others like this.
  2. marylou
    Chat With Me

    marylou Tigerlils favourite

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,227
    Likes Received:
    10,437
    to be honest i dont know really what to say about this story it doesnt seem that hes doing any thing ratty at this moment and it looks like your on the ball .... I might be wrong :oops:
     
    chinagirl and Tunisianbelle like this.
  3. Ariel
    Chat With Me

    Ariel Under the Sea Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    178
    I don't think that he sounds like a classic rat, but I'm wondering whether there is much love in this relationship? It all sounds very matter-of-fact, but it could be that that is what suits you both or that your view of marriage is different to my own. Don't get me wrong, it is quite refreshing to read something sensible rather than the fluffy 'fake' lovey-dovey stuff (which invariably fades), but perhaps your motivation to find out whether he is a rat or not is something inside you telling you that he is not the man for you (not even necessarily whether he is a rat or not?). Please feel free to ignore this ;) and I'm sorry if it offends - I'm just writing what I honestly thought from reading your post xxx
     
  4. Bella
    Chat With Me

    Bella Google Queen

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2011
    Messages:
    4,313
    Likes Received:
    4,374
    I guess the main concern would be if he is only talking marriage to stay in the country.....

    To me, i see no alarm bells from what you said, i am not in the know with muslim religion etc tho so please stick around and see what the more knowledgeable members have to say ... good luck x
     
    ijs and marylou like this.
  5. NordicOne
    Chat With Me

    NordicOne New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    10
    Oh, there are definitely feelings in there - that is quite evident from both sides - although kept in check and not expressed or acted upon at the moment as it's not consistent with what islam proposes before marriage. :) Feelings and sexuality are not expressed openly in the way most people living in the western world are used to, but considered part of the private sphere of the home and only within the bounds of marriage.

    Yes, it's different from what most are used to or brought up with when it comes to marriage and choosing a partner - and in some ways the islamic way has its shortcomings as it for some (many?) people is far too focused on finding a good, practical match between a man and a woman and reasoning that this is also a good foundation for feelings to develop. Right or wrong? Depends on your preference most likely :D

    Before my conversion many years ago I've done the standard route with feelings leading to engagement, leading to separation - personally I prefer this way as I find the basics on what is important in a relation gets a much fairer chance at being discussed and taken care of before the feelings "get in the way" and clouds your mind (said slightly toungue in cheek).
     
    sparkle and Monastirienne like this.
  6. Ariel
    Chat With Me

    Ariel Under the Sea Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Messages:
    0
    Likes Received:
    178
    I understand, I was just running it past you ;)
     
  7. tigerlil
    Chat With Me

    tigerlil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,616
    Likes Received:
    10,769
    Hi and welcome to TLR...how long did you know the sister before she asked you about meeting her brother??
     
    Eddie likes this.
  8. tigerlil
    Chat With Me

    tigerlil Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,616
    Likes Received:
    10,769
    Met this man through his sister at the local mosque where she initially, on her brothers behalf, asked me for information about the ledger that the mosque keeps for parties interested in marriage. I showed here to the information desk and on the way we started chatting, she asked whether I had family or not (which in itself is not uncommon amongst muslim, much of talk with other women tend to start on that end) and when I stated I wasn't married she wondered if I would be interested in having a coffee with her and at a later date, possibly also her brother, at a cafe some time in the future


    So he was looking for a bride!!
     
    Laura2014 likes this.
  9. mezoo
    Chat With Me

    mezoo The Decider

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,069
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    different kind of story for around here,,,anyway. welcome to the forum nordic...
     
  10. marilyna
    Chat With Me

    marilyna Chocolate Connoisseur

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    4,138
    Likes Received:
    8,711
    Welcome to TLR Nordic one, as Tigerlil said he sounds like someone who is looking for a wife. Clearly, as he is an asylum seeker, it would help him to find a wife who can help him get stay, as you mentioned.

    The question is were you approached by his sister because he will get stay if he marries you?

    His approach is different, and he seems to be doing things the Islamic way, your eyes are open, and I guess you will know if something is not above board.
     
  11. Laurence
    Chat With Me

    Laurence Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2010
    Messages:
    3,239
    Likes Received:
    14,989
    Looking for papers to be able to stay, found the ideal victim...
     
    Tiger likes this.
  12. NetNiet
    Chat With Me

    NetNiet EVIL member :D

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2,693
    Likes Received:
    6,661
    Like other ones already did write no "classic" signs.
    Like TunsianSun I did also get the feeling that you were convincing yourself that he is a good man to get married too.
    But later you mentioned that you had really feelings for him.
    Are you sure he has feelings for you aswell or is that the reason that you came here to ask?

    How long do you know him now?
    Did you already did speak about when the wedding has to take place?

    You know it's a little difficult to explain but in a marriage there is besides love allways other benefits which are involved, when that is in proportion than it's OK, but when the other things take over the meaning of marriage than it's offcourse a problem.
    From what you're writing I'm not sure what kind of fealing it gives me, but that is also because the religion part in your writing is taking a big important place, which I completely understand, but what also takes me to the side to believethat he is OK.

    But at the other side we don't have to forget that he will not be able to get an asylum visa anymore!
    He is not be able to get one since 1 year now!
    So why is he saying that he's still waiting for that?
    If I was you than I would like to know more about this part.
    And not only because you want to find out if the papers are more important to him than the love for you, but also because if you're getting married to him, it's important that you know.

    Maybe you understand why he isn't be able to get an asylum for religious (or political) reasons anymore since a year, but I will try to explain, because maybe that was his reason when Ben Ali was still president here, but Ben Ali is already a year gone so since that time there is no person anymore who get a visa based on the reasons political or religious from the time of Ben Ali.

    And besides that, you don't have to tell, but I think you have to find out for yourself, what did he do with his religion that he needed to get out of Tunisia. I'm not suggesting that he had no reason, because believe me I'm pretty aware what happened here!
    But there are here millions of Tunisian people who did go every day to the moskee, were watched and controlled by special people, those people and their families did get sometimes difficult times by the police, but.....they all stayed here in Tunisia!

    So if I was you, I would like to know more about that part and not only to find out if the papers are so or more important to him, but especially because I would like to find out when I was you, what kind of man am I getting married too. Especially about the part why he's saying the last year he's waiting for his asylum visa, when that is impossible, so I would like to find out when I was you if he was lying or not.

    Again I understand if you don't want to write about that part here in public and even I maybe advise you not to write that here in public. Because I'm not be able to say know it can harm him or his family here still living in Tunisia.
    I know there is freedom now, but allthough I still get demandings from European journalist to give interviews, I still refuse them, you will never know and I don't want to take any risc with my family here.
    So I just wanted to let you know this part, so you can decide for yourself, maybe I'm over protecting with that kind of things.
    But if you prefer to discuss this in private conversation than for excample Tunisianbelle knows also a lot about this and I hope she doesn't mind that I mention her name here to maybe help you if you like and offcourse you can send me also a PM if you like.
     
    Tunisianbelle and tunisiasun like this.
  13. mezoo
    Chat With Me

    mezoo The Decider

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,069
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    asylum. if it was a problem before, it ain't no more. i'd love to hear his "well founded fear". bs. missed that first read......
     
    NetNiet likes this.
  14. this guy clearly wants to stay in the country and if you do marry him, only time will tell whether this was the only reason for the him wanting to get married. The question is are u willing to take this risk ? It sounds like his family would want him to be with a Muslim lady and also to stay in the country so i guess he has got the best of both being with you !
     
    DragonZest, tunisiasun and marylou like this.
  15. Mango Chutney
    Chat With Me

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    4,667
    Well this one is a whole new perspective! I love seeing all the different ways of approach. My gut feeling says papers, but should love to know what the outcome was :confused:
     
  16. minnie
    Chat With Me

    minnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    197
    This reminds me of my first marriage I was basically befriended by his sisters which I knew 2 years before my ex then a semi-knowing agreement of marriage due to asylum seekers and what happened he had in his country a fiance the whole time was just waiting on permanent residence...now him and his wife and children live comfortable thx to the fact I was naive
     
    ijs, catrin, Laura2014 and 1 other person like this.
  17. Mango Chutney
    Chat With Me

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2015
    Messages:
    3,204
    Likes Received:
    4,667
    I found this thread really interesting, as it showed things from a completely different aspect. I'm sorry you went through that, Minnie....would really love to know what happened with this one though. Real....or papers? :confused: Your experience does sound very similar.
     
  18. Laura2014
    Chat With Me

    Laura2014 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Messages:
    1,080
    Likes Received:
    2,813
    That must be such a bitter pill to swallow. Not sure who I despise more the men who do it or fiancé who enables or encourages it.

    I guess it's an indicator of why the women there put up with philandering husbands and boyfriends, dollars have more value than fidelity.
     
  19. Liona
    Chat With Me

    Liona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    I hope this story has nothing common with rattery, because the woman is not back to the TLR:).
     
  20. minnie
    Chat With Me

    minnie Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    197
    Oh and my ex was no tunisia...but a rat allday
     
    Amira likes this.
  21. RatBitten
    Chat With Me

    RatBitten Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2017
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    128
    It's too bad we can't follow up with past members and see how things turned out for them. The optimist in me hopes they are happy, but the realist in me thinks if they came to this site, the ending was probably not too happy:(
     
    Amira and magic like this.
  22. Amira
    Chat With Me

    Amira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    You Write that you is live in
    Scandinavian country well i do not hear good Things about tunisian men at tall what i have hear is they use Scandinavian women to get visa , Money , even take visa card from women . Just take care about Your self . I do not have experience With tunisian man at tall but when People around is talk bad about them maybe best to listen to them
     
  23. magic
    Chat With Me

    magic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,475
    Likes Received:
    3,378
    Me too
     
    Amira likes this.
  24. Amira
    Chat With Me

    Amira Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,719
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    True you can not change a rat and old problems will come up again
     
    Mango Chutney and Liona like this.
  25. Liona
    Chat With Me

    Liona Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    I have been thinking if it is possible for rat to change. One day, for example, he would wake up not rat. But I will agree, the rat will not change.
     

Share This Page