Overseas child abductions on the riese

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marilyna

Guest
Cross-border legal disputes involving child abduction and custody rows have more than doubled in the past two years, according to the judicial office specialising in international family cases.
Globalisation and the boom in relationships between people from different states increasingly requires the intervention of specialist judges to liaise between jurisdictions, a report by the office has revealed.
The number of cases handled by the Office of the Head of International Family Justice for England & Wales has risen from three in 2005, when it was established, to 92 in 2010 and 253 last year.
Among disputes the office dealt with was the case of a mother who took her children to France to prevent them from being taken into care. The report says they were found living on a waterlogged caravan site, due to close for the winter, and were not attending school. The children were eventually safely returned.
In another case, the judicial office obtained assurances from the Cypriot attorney general that a woman who agreed to return from Britain to Cyprus with her child would not be prosecuted by the Cypriot authorities.
In his preface to the report, Lord Justice Thorpe, head of the office, said: "We acknowledge, as would all individuals concerned or involved with family justice, the additional emotional distress that is caused to any family by the inclusion of an international dimension. It is incumbent upon anyone who works in such a sensitive area to try and find ways of mitigating such stress, to the extent that it is possible to do so."
Thorpe's office runs a helpdesk for judges and lawyers whose cases have stalled or been delayed because two countries' legal systems are involved or when international conventions guaranteeing children's rights are flouted by overseas courts.
Much of the legal team's expertise is focused on improving transnational judicial collaboration over abductions and other child custody disputes where parents live in different countries.
Lord Justice Thorpe said: "The continued rise in requests to the office for assistance is largely attributable to two factors … the ever-increasing number of international family cases coming before the courts, necessitating assistance from an overseas judge.
"The second is the increasing awareness among judges and practitioners throughout the world of the service that the office provides and the benefits it can bring."
The office dealt with 71 different national jurisdictions and recorded that it was able to offer "meaningful assistance" in relation to 46 countries. It co-ordinates with the Foreign Office's child abduction unit and the lord chancellor's international child abduction and contact unit.
The majority of European requests related to Poland (14), Spain (12), France and Germany (10 each), Slovakia (nine) and the Republic of Ireland (seven). The report says it is to be regretted that neither Poland nor Italy have appointed sitting judges to the International Hague Network of Judges, specialising in family justice. "This has significantly impeded formal judicial collaboration with both jurisdictions."
Sometimes consultations involve late-night conversations to overcome timezone differences. A lawyer from the international family justice office in London had to speak to the New Zealand family judge at 1am in a case involving allegations of sex abuse by the mother of an abducted child against the father.
In another case, an English judge participated via telephone in a US court hearing about a dispute involving a child he had previously dealt with in the UK.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2013/may/01/overseas-child-abductions-rise
 
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Caramel

Guest
Apparently, countries not part of the Hague Convention make it very difficult to get a child back. Direct action has to be taken as many embassies and governments dont help as they want the victims to follow the official route, which if you do, you will never get your child back. Look what this American woman did.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-12-kidnapped-father-forced-live-Muslim.html Good for her.
 

M.I.5 ratter

Well-Known Member
On Hannibal tv station in Tunisia we often see stories on a programme called(roughly translated) 'crime scene' re children being abducted. many people feel the host does Tunsia no favours in publicising the stories, but some of them are really heartbreaking.
 
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Caramel

Guest
Now that the British judges are involved, Tunisia may have to get its act together. They do receive lots of foreign aid, so they may have to reciprocate by falling in line by signing up to the Hague convention and looking more closely at these marriage fraud cases too. Its not a time for the British government to bring politics into the way these rats are treating us but they must put this item on the agenda because it is the right and humanly thing to do.
 

simple

Major Ratslayer
On Hannibal tv station in Tunisia we often see stories on a programme called(roughly translated) 'crime scene' re children being abducted. many people feel the host does Tunsia no favours in publicising the stories, but some of them are really heartbreaking.
The majority of tunisians believe that should a couple divorce or part ...the man must have custody ,as his mother or sisters will take over the role of mother ,,,, In EU countries the opposite is believed,,,
 

simple

Major Ratslayer
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Caramel

Guest
I always thought men were the main abductors but according to this article 70% of children are abducted by women. Wow! After all, women are the ones who carry children for 9 months and bear the brunt of looking after them until adult, so why not.
 

simple

Major Ratslayer
I always thought men were the main abductors but according to this article 70% of children are abducted by women. Wow! After all, women are the ones who carry children for 9 months and bear the brunt of looking after them until adult, so why not.
I guess women are the ones who have the most problem ,with children born in muslim countries because of the laws going with the father more than mothers ...
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
Now that the British judges are involved, Tunisia may have to get its act together. They do receive lots of foreign aid, so they may have to reciprocate by falling in line by signing up to the Hague convention and looking more closely at these marriage fraud cases too.
Nope - the reason is simple: Signing the contract is not in line with the quranic teachings, and since this is so and Tunisia is very firm on being such a country, it simply won't happen. The only "arabic" country that has ever signed the contract, is, btw, Jordania.

There are more contracts that Tunisia have signed, and, in each case, they only accept the portions that are not against the Quran. Examples are the recognition of foreign marriages or, the biggest one, the Human Rights Act (even after the uprising!).

So, in any case, don't bet on Tunisia signing the Hague Convention anytime soon - not with this government, not with these majority parties. And even if they sign, make sure to read the restrictions that they will put into place. :)
 
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Caramel

Guest
In that case, foreign aid should be stopped until they conform. To get something, you need to give in return too.
 
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bateman

Guest
Just what I have always suspected, the embassies and other authorities are powerless to help if your child is kidnapped. Facts stated in this article. Direct action is the only way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...3497.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false
its understood that uk gov and others can do very little once the child has been removed from uk and sent to any arabic country harder if child has duel nataionality or has recived a passport from the new country too replace uk/european passport
 
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Caramel

Guest
I would advise any woman or man, living int he UK, that have children with a foreign spouse, to ensure their child is made a ward of court, if you suspect them being taken out of the country, or if you see any warning signs. Remember, the ward of court protection only lasts 12 months and needs to be renewed. This break is usually when the foreign parent will get a passport from their embassy and take the child out of the UK. Dont know what the process is for other European countries. Its unfortunate to have this kind of possible situation hanging over your head, but thats how it is when things go sour or the foreign spouse thinks that the child will be corrupted in the UK or another western country.
 

Fool

Well-Known Member
Just a question. Is it not possible to have the muslim partner sign a paper that takes away his/her right to take the kid after divorce?
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
No, because in islamic law oriented countries, the father has the right BY LAW to determine where his children live. It is not possible to surrender such a law in a contract, because the contract would then become invalid and won't be recognized by the local jurisdiction.
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
Correcction: Morocco, not Jordania, have signed the international contract about children abduction. Turkey has signed it as well, btw.
 

Fool

Well-Known Member
Hmm. Disturbing. And if the father accidently dies, will his family then inheriate the child ?
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
its understood that uk gov and others can do very little once the child has been removed from uk and sent to any arabic country harder if child has duel nataionality
Of course not - an embassy can only help THEIR OWN nationals. If someone has a dual nationality, a country will always only recognize the OWN nationality (unless there are bi-national treaties in place which state otherwise).
It would be the same in the UK - a foreign embassy can only help there if the person is NOT (also) an uk citizen.

"Dual nationality" does, in practice, not mean that someone has really multiple nationalites, but it means rather that the person has in 2 countries the citizen rights (but always only 1, the one that he assumed when visiting the country). Now, when a person is a citizen of a country, the country usually demands that he can only enter the country with the passport of THIS country (even though he might possess other ones, too).

In other words: A dual national UK/Tunisia is (ONLY) a Tunisian in Tunisia and British in the UK.

As for children - children of fathers who are citizens of islamic states (exclusively or by multiple citizenship) aquire AUTOMATICALLY his citizenship, by the law of THIS islamic state. This means that the father can, at any time, demand a passport for his child (or the child itself, if old enough). As soon as the child then enters this state, it will be treated as if he had only this citizenship (as described above).
Actually, in practice, the citizens of most countries can even enter their country without a passport - might be a bit uncomfortable, but they won't be rejected, so whether a child has a passport or not, it will be able to enter the country of his citizenship(s).
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
Hmm. Disturbing. And if the father accidently dies, will his family then inheriate the child ?
No, there are certain laws in each country who will tell exactly who will inherit the rights about the child. In many islamic countries this will be his father or another close male relative (brother); the mother usally only can raise her rights if she is a resident of the country and lives in "good moral standing". If no relative is available, the rights go to the court, sometimes to the mother.

Normally, in marriage (or as single mother), the mother has only the right to care for the child - which is actually, in reality, rather a duty, not a real right - until the child has reached puberty (or some other specified age), after which even this duty goes to the father. The one who cares for the child, has, however, the RIGHT to get money/etc. by the father, sufficient to exercise the care.
The father, on the other hand, has the right to determine eg. where the child lives, where it goes to school, and which medical treatment it will receive.
 
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Caramel

Guest
Just a question. Is it not possible to have the muslim partner sign a paper that takes away his/her right to take the kid after divorce?
Regardless of contracts, agreements, etc any parent wishing to remove their child from a country will do so. Once they get to their country, they will not be forced to hand the child back.
 
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Ariel

Guest
She must have been so desperate and the situation must have been truly awful for her to weigh up the risks of leaving in such a way or staying- I feel for her and I hope they can rebuild their lives :)
 
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Caramel

Guest
I saw the mother on the TV this morning. Did you see who helped her ? It was Donya - the woman in the books I lent you. That woman is amazing.
Yes, Paula. She is amazing. Read those two books and didn't think she was still doing this. She uses the same method every time, getting a driver to standby. Do you recall that she even spent months in an Arab jail because one of the women she tried to help didn't follow her instructions?
 
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Caramel

Guest
OH my goodness ,what a story !! Its not fair that mothers have to resort to this ,yet more and more will do the same .Does something really bad have to happen before the goverment listen ???
The embassies will never interfere because they like to follow guidelines and these guidelines are useless as they can never get the children returned. Only alternative is to go in by stealth and take your children back as many of these women have done. Donya is amazing and it is someone like her that should be nominated for an award.
 

paula01

Senior Rat Expert
Can you give the name of the books, so we can read them?
Hi Marilyna, These books are so good and keep you on the edge of your seat. Her name is Donya Al-Nahi and the books are called: Heroine of the Desert and No-One Takes My Children. She met a Tunisian early on in the book (before she started helping women get their children back) and was going to marry him but changed her mind at the last minute. That part was really funny how she described him, after the family got him ready for the marriage. Anyway they are a really good read, I couldnt put them down. Until I saw her on TV a couple of days ago where she helped a British woman get her daughter back from Egypt - I did not realize that she still did this.
 
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