Proposed Tunisia citizenship law abolishes paternal veto right

Ben

Administrator
A draft citizenship law in Tunisia would allow mothers married to foreigners to pass their nationality on to their children, without the approval of the father. Libya, Algeria and Morocco already have similar measures in place.

Many Tunisians regard the law as a small token of new gains for women, which will serve to bolster partnership and equality between both genders.

The bill is to be submitted to the Chamber of Deputies during its coming round in October. A cabinet meeting held on September 8th ratified the new step.

The draft law completes the Code of Nationality reform. In 1993, the Tunisian legislature gave children below the age of 19 born to Tunisian mothers and foreign fathers, the right to Tunisian nationality upon the joint approval of both parents. In 2002, the law held the mother's approval as the sole condition in case of the father's decease, disappearance, or legal incapacity.

The statement issued by the cabinet meeting noted that the decision to introduce the new amendment aims at putting an end to all forms of legal discrimination against women, conforming to the provisions of the UN Committee on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW).

The new legislation grants Tunisian citizenship to every child born to a Tunisian father or a Tunisian mother, regardless of the place of birth, whether within or outside Tunisia. The law also grants citizenship to children born to a Tunisian mother and an anonymous father, a father of an unknown nationality or a father with no nationality.

The new regulation will take effect immediately.

"The new amendment is very positive, because the majority of women married to foreigners often have to come back to Tunisia to escape their husband's violence, only to find themselves with a major problem," stated Safia Sahbi, of the Democratic Women's Association, to Magharebia.

Sahbi added that two years prior to the 2005 Beijing conference, women's groups submitted a list of all discriminatory laws against women to the Tunisian government. "Many of our requests were answered then," she noted. "However, our call to grant nationality to children born to a Tunisian mother and a foreign father was answered after 17 years of waiting."

The new amendment did not go without a debate.

Nabiha ben Hmida welcomed the new amendment "which will end the suffering of many women. For years, I waited for my daughter, born to an Egyptian father, to get Tunisian nationality after her father, who worked in Libya, passed away."

Tarek Bettayeb, a working father of two children, sarcastically noted, "Aren't Tunisian women happy with all the gains they made and which led to their downfall? Their misunderstanding of their rights led Tunisia to be among the countries with the highest rates of divorcees and unmarried women."

Tarek believes that the rights women were granted have led men to "refrain from marriage, for fear of the consequences of those rights".

"I think if the Tunisian authorities really want to amend discriminatory laws against women, they need to take a bold step and abolish inheritance laws that still shackle women financially," commented Souad Kefi, a feminist. "Tunisian women's freedom cannot be divorced from their financial freedom."

Raoudha Seibi, a member of parliament representing the Social Liberal Party, saw the new amendment as "another step on the road of modernity, where women's rights stand as one of the main pillars".

Magharebia learned that Tunisia will submit a file to the CEDAW follow-up committee in Geneva so as to estimate the progress made by the Tunisian legislature in the domain of gender equality.

Source : http://www.magharebia.com/cocoon/awi/xhtml1/en_GB/features/awi/features/2010/09/22/feature-02
 

mezoo

The Decider
Tarek Bettayeb, a working father of two children, sarcastically noted, "Aren't Tunisian women happy with all the gains they made and which led to their downfall? Their misunderstanding of their rights led Tunisia to be among the countries with the highest rates of divorcees and unmarried women."
jerk.:coffee:
 

mezoo

The Decider
Tarek Bettayeb, a working father of two children, sarcastically noted, "Aren't Tunisian women happy with all the gains they made and which led to their downfall? Their misunderstanding of their rights led Tunisia to be among the countries with the highest rates of divorcees and unmarried women."
women don't divorce guys you aren't assholes. :coffee:
 
C

Caramel

Guest
Tarek Bettayeb, a working father of two children, sarcastically noted, "Aren't Tunisian women happy with all the gains they made and which led to their downfall? Their misunderstanding of their rights led Tunisia to be among the countries with the highest rates of divorcees and unmarried women."

The women have finally realised that they are equal in every way and do not tolerate any kind of abuse - thats why the divorce rate is going up. ~They are standing up for themselves! Before, they had to do everything their husband say, otherwise face the consequences. The fathers, uncles, nephews and brothers were the dominant ones - 'do as I say but not as I do' was the motto. Women are now empowered and have a mind of their own. What a sleezeball this Tarek is? I suppose he is one that advocates polygamy too.
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
the new amendment aims at putting an end to all forms of legal discrimination against women
This is a blatant lie, since the new law will not change the fact that marriages between tunisian women and non-muslim men are not registered in Tunisia. I am looking forward to the situation when such a tunisian woman will tell the authorities "my children will only become tunisian when my marriage is registered as well". :)

The law is obviously NOT made to provide equality, but to put more people under the tunisian citizenship - since now also the children of tunisian women and foreign men will automatically become tunisian and will not be protected anymore by their foreign citizenship.
 

Ben

Administrator
that is simply not true ET. Perhaps the government employees will give her a dirty look, tell her to come back tomorrow :D .. etc.. but as it stands now , the law on paper doesn't discriminate.

As I said the well to do Tunisian women who are married to Americans here, have no issues what so ever. (don't know about the Jendoubi ones :ben:)
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
that is simply not true ET. Perhaps the government employees will give her a dirty look, tell her to come back tomorrow :D .. etc.. but as it stands now , the law on paper doesn't discriminate.

As I said the well to do Tunisian women who are married to Americans here, have no issues what so ever. (don't know about the Jendoubi ones :ben:)
Actually - no. The marriages are rejected because of an internal paper of a former justice minister of Tunisia, who advised the municipalites to not accept such marriages as being not compatible with tunisian culture (which is a valid exemption of the treaty of acceptance of foreign marriages which tunisia undersigned)
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
>>>
Un arrete du Ministre de la Justice datant de 1985 interdit aux Officiers d'Etat Civil la transcription des actes de mariage de tunisiennes mariees a des non-musulmans dans le registre de l'Etat Civil tunisien.
<<<

The german embassy for example simply refuses to accept a marriage certificate of such a marriage (last case happened just recently), the same is true for France.

See also the discussions on this website:
http://www.jurisitetunisie.com/se/index.php?board=3.0
 

Ben

Administrator
I agree... and it's true.

BUT the children of said marriage are automatically Tunisians without recognizing the actual marriage. Heck ... even out of wedlock Tunisian kids are registered with their mom's name or dad's with no issues
 

Etoyoc

Major Ratslayer
Well, now think further - a daughter of a tunisian woman and a non-muslim man wants to marry one day a non-muslim as well and that marriage would also not be recognized, yet her children would also be, again, tunisans.
Furthermore - since the chidren of a tunisian woman with a non-muslim father are considered bastards, they would not show up on her birth certificate, yet become tunisian citizens?

You start to see the problem that I have with this so-called woman-rights-improving law?
 
C

Caramel

Guest
Wow! Way over my head to comment on this one. I understand non Muslim men have to convert to Islam before marrying a Tunisian woman, but the same law doesnt apply for Tunisian men marrying a non-muslim woman. Is this true? If so, surely there is discrimination against Tunisian women here?
 

alAzima

Administrator & Voice of Reason
I feel kind of lost too, but I know a few Tunisian girls living in the US married to American (non Tunisian ancestory) who are NOT muslim men and did not convert. They were able to marry. Some of them married in Tunisia and others did a fiance visa and married in the USA. I don't think any of those that I know have children yet, so I can't comment on that.
 
C

Caramel

Guest
In 2001 I met a British man at the Embassy in Tunis and he told me he had to convert to Islam before he could marry his Tunisian lady. Dont know whether this has changed. I know its not the same for men marrying non muslims.
 

mezoo

The Decider
long story

fact that marriages between tunisian women and non-muslim men are not registered in Tunisia.
wrong to have acknowledge on paper to anyone or anyting about a belief to secure a human right, regardless MYOB :mad::mad:
 

mezoo

The Decider
..........................:coffee:
..........................:coffee:
knew of the rejections but never knew this was the "technical"(civil) reason.
The marriages are rejected because of an internal paper of a former justice minister of Tunisia, who advised the municipalites to not accept such marriages as being not compatible with tunisian culture
wouldn't even consider doing this stuff via a Tunisian embassy anyhwere in the world...useless. :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall: :zwall:

The german embassy for example
interesting thought :innocent:
Maybe the US is a special case. :)
 

mezoo

The Decider
Furthermore - since the chidren of a tunisian woman with a non-muslim father are considered bastards

...............................................................................................................................:coffee:
same guy, met him many times not just in tunisia, worldwide...majority islamic male trait. fact
...............................................................................................................................:coffee:


Perhaps the government employees will give her a dirty look, tell her to come back tomorrow :D .. etc..
 
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Caramel

Guest
I am lost in all this. Can someone please answer my question above?
 

Ben

Administrator
a good notary can work wonders..trust me on this i know. :coffee:
haha No I mean what goes on a day to day basis we all know about.. same is true here in the states. What matters is the Law.

The law is injecting religion in a civil matter, and to me that's ... (keeping my thought to myself :ben:)

It's demeaning not only to women but to Islam as well because :
1st Islam doesn't need constitutional protection
2nd disallowing a girl's marriage over religion WILL NOT make her a good Muslim

It's just a freak show :D
 
C

Caramel

Guest
haha No I mean what goes on a day to day basis we all know about.. same is true here in the states. What matters is the Law.

The law is injecting religion in a civil matter, and to me that's ... (keeping my thought to myself :ben:)

It's demeaning not only to women but to Islam as well because :
1st Islam doesn't need constitutional protection
2nd disallowing a girl's marriage over religion WILL NOT make her a good Muslim

It's just a freak show :D
Its also penalising the non-muslin man, thereby punishing the Tunisian woman also. The only one that comes out well out of all this is the Tunisian man. So sad.
 
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