Sruggle between doubt and wanting to believe a rat

Discussion in 'Rat on a Rat' started by Tiger, Oct 2, 2015.

  1. Tiger

    Tiger Well-Known Member

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    To get out of an abusive relationship/marriage is not an easy desission. Questions and doubts flows through the head, Is it me Who are wrong? Is it me WHO do not under stand? Am I not trust him?
    Life with a rat's like living on top of a volcano. It smoulders under legs all the time. We never know when the next outbreak comes. Will it be just smoke? Or will it be glowing lava?
    Demands increase and increase. Accusations that you do nothing. Unable to obtain visas. It's your fault. You have not done enough.
    Nor will you invest in his country.
    The days become chaos. It's like playing with a scorpion. You never know when it strikes. Conversations can start as normal conversations, like some love bombing. It is dear and beloved, but before you know it the eruption of the volcano comes. Sneaky statements indicating that he is considering to end the relationship. Direct statements about divorce. Because you do not understand, do not love enough, not willing to give.
    This game is usually a night game. Getting online 02.00 and go on two early morning. That's the game.

    To live in this uncertainty, being manipulated and being deprived of sleep is a known maneuver to break down a human. This tactic is used in warfare and torture.
    Manipulation and use of this method is extremely damaging to the victims. And rats using the method ruthlessly.

    You must be very strong to stand up and fight back. It as a process where one often sees reality. We know inside that you are being exploited and manipulated. But the doubt is there. It is a battle between emotion, desire that we should be wrong and reason which says how reality is.

    But know that when alarm bells ringing. When our inner voice says that it is something that is totally wrong this voice true. A manipulator and abuser wild not change. A manipulator and abuser are never satisfied. Will never get enough. Much will always want more !!
    He will slowly but surely break you down both mentally and physically. Suck you empty. And when there is no more to take, he move on and left you in ruin.

    When the alarm bells ringing. Listen! You are not crazy. It's not you it's faulty.
    It's hard to have to throw in the towel and go. Difficult to admit that what many warned indeed was right. He wanted money and visas. There was no love from his side.

    But lift your head !! Be strong. Once the initial pain has subsided so one would never return. And it is as a stone is taken away from the shoulders.
     
  2. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

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    Me as a person.. and having been through the full enchilada, marriage visa and stroke't the t's and dotted the eyes.. I have asked myself many times, what was the worst thing he did too me?


    What he did... he understood me so.. well.... he studied me more than I knew and would tell me many times he knew me more than I knew myself.. he was right... I gave my wholeself, I had no game, no agenda, I was what I was and still am what I am and always been.. he admitted then.. knowing my decency, he abused me as a decent person with good intentions and honest heart.. he saw my best qualities as a weakness, to achieve his "goal". he mentally, chipped away. and made me feel inadequate and a selfish person, using my assetts . my essence, as a mother, a friend, a sister, and told me I was a failure.. no-one loved me... not even my children..this caused much damage..

    yes financially.. but what is money!!! for me.. easily rectified... but to take a self confidence, self esteem, to mentally abuse, and know that is what they were doing too me is the worst abuse.. too use family also to achieve this abuse is worst..and has a long lasting impact on the victim.. I understand this now.. he wanted what I was .. he wanted my essence.. he was jealous of me... he wanted to be me... sick yes... but true...
    too come through the abuse and heal is too understand is that they can't. we are of our own make=up. they have black hearts and no human decency... your essence will never change.. you may lose it for a while ..in a mist of confusion.. ut you will never change...
     
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  3. undecided

    undecided Member

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    thank you tiger,,, my rat used to only speak to me after midnight and expect me to skype him until maybe 3 and I had to get up at 6 very hard , what your saying makes so much sense thank you
     
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  4. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    Mine was full on 24/7. I had no time for anything or anyone else, he completely dominated my time. I wasn't allowed to go out in England or Tunisia, sometimes I'd switch my internet off just to get some time for me. Once I'd put the internet back on, I'd have up to twenty/thirty messages from him all come through together. He'd start out with concern about my whereabouts, then he'd get angry, he'd want to know why I was ignoring him, then he'd ask why I had no internet, where the hell had I gone, I'd be accused of being with other men etc. He'd go mad! He made me start to go crazy in the head! He wouldn't believe I was offline just so I could have time to myself. I was supposed to be at his beck and call all day and night. I literally had no life! xx
     
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  5. undecided

    undecided Member

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    he sounds horrible mango I actually figured my had a Tunisian girlfriend and multiplie other European girls so that all kept him busy lol,, that sounds a nightmare for you mango you need breathing space , sounds like such a control freak
     
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  6. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    @crystal, your rat experience sounds so similar to mine, it's quite frightening. He said he knew me better than I knew myself, I was a good, honest person, I gave my whole, soft heart....and he abused it, he took advantage of my good qualities. I was told I was selfish, only thought of myself. He said my family, children, friends didn't love me, only he did. He says I'm stuck with him forever, that he'll never give up on us and that wherever I am, he will find me. H actually told me he wanted to be like me, he wanted my happy heart, my joy for life, my positive energy, my constant laughter (his words), he was jealous of me! He didn't cope well when I was in England, I was never allowed back for long because the house felt wrong, the laughter, the fun, the happy atmosphere was gone. I believe to a degree, he was telling me the truth, but also, I now know it was easier to control me while I was with him. He hated being full of negativity, anger, frustration. He wanted my personality to change him, but actually, his personality changed mine. He killed who I was with his spiteful mouth, his abusive hands, his evil thoughts, control, manipulation etc. When does it get better? When do we find ourselves again? Get strong, move on etc? I just feel in complete limbo right now. I laugh and cry together, I have positive and negative memories in the same seconds. I feel strong and then defeated in the same minute. I truly feel like an absolute loony!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
  7. undecided

    undecided Member

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    I think its hard you know that song I hate that I love you even if there so horrible, part of you still loves them but they are soul destroying and your s sounds at the top of the list for badness @Mango Chutney
     
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  8. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    He was a bad one for sure, completely psychotic, but me being me, I believed I could help him, I looked for the good deep inside, he did so many sweet, thoughtful things for me. He'd go out and buy me random gifts, nothingy type things, but they meant everything to me because I knew he'd been thinking of me. He phoned and messaged me all night when he was working to make sure I was safe, didn't need anything etc ....I was with his family! Ironically, I was actually at my safest then, because he wasn't there! He'd find something orange, a cup etc and bring it back for me because orange was my favourite colour, one time he bought me a teddy bear that said I love you on it, not for any occasion, because he'd seen it and wanted me to have it. He gave me Christmas, with flashing lights and gifts, he went in a taxi at five in the morning to get me the best, freshest birthday cake, I had gifts and balloons, even though they do not celebrate these occasions. He did them both as surprises and like an idiot, I cried! He used to wash and straighten my hair. Every morning and night, he'd treat the verruca on my foot and take the dry skin off, bleughhh. In the winter, he'd put the radiator in the bathroom so I was warm for my shower and put my clothes on the heater in the bedroom, so I came out to warm clothes, if I woke up hungry at silly o'clock, he'd get up and prepare my food, he'd walk to the next village at silly o'clock to find me some menthol fags, he didn't want me to smoke the disgusting ones. He'd work, save money and give me surprise days out at Korbous, El Jem etc, he'd wake me up at 5am so that we could watch the sunrise because he knew I loved it. He'd sit on the beach with me for hours so I could listen to the sea, even though he had a sand phobia. I could go on and on with examples. Right to the end, he could be so nice, thoughtful, loving....and five minutes later, he'd be assaulting me, screaming at me, flinging false accusations at me, smashing my stuff up. His bi-polar was a killer, I didn't know if I was coming or going. My head was everywhere! He'd say it was my fault, I made him do it. He'd shout, why won't you just listen? Why won't you just do as you're told? I'd find myself questioning my own behaviour, wondering if it was my fault, but it wasn't, I'd done nothing wrong. I'm with a different friend this week, Sillygirl is going camping in the morning for a week, I miss my partner in crime, I miss having somebody up all through the night with me. I suspect I'll be on this site a lot this week for support. Sorry, my messages get so long when I start pouring my heart out, but it feels so good to let it all out with the only people that will ever truly understand. Friends try to understand, try to support and I'm so grateful, but I think unless you've actually been so completely brainwashed, lived the life with a rat, it's very hard to completely understand the insane lives we were all living xx
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  9. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Wow, he´s crazy :eek: at first he treated you like a baby, not like a grown up and later, all the while having in his mind to get a visa, come to the UK, kill your children and hide with you somewhere in Europe :Evil: That sure would delete all the good memories out of my mind :Ninja:
    Keep on writing here, it will help you to come to term with yourself and try to get your inner clock back to normal, to sleep at night :)
     
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  10. Oh this "I'll help you" syndrom, I know it too well, I think all the women on this forum ;). I knew where my rat was coming from, never had any security, safety, not from his parents, poverty, abandonment, violence. That was my promise to him "I will never let you down". I'm loyal, faithful, trustworthy. And somehow that has been translated in my rat's mind in "you can take advantage of me in every possible way, tell me all the lies you can think of, I am a stupid woman".

    Hell if I read about psychopathy and narcissism I see exactly where my rat's behaviour is coming from, his pathological lying, etc. I did the Hare PCL-R psychopath test together with the other woman who has shared her life with my rat for years and he scored almost 100% with both of us.The psychopath and the "I will help you" woman is a classic combination.
     
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  11. The Hare Psychopathy Checklist-Revised (PCL-R) is a diagnostic tool used to rate a person's psychopathic or antisocial tendencies. People who are psychopathic prey ruthlessly on others using charm, deceit, violence or other methods that allow them to get what they want. The symptoms of psychopathy include: lack of a conscience or sense of guilt, lack of empathy, egocentricity, pathological lying, repeated violations of social norms, disregard for the law, shallow emotions, and a history of victimizing others.

    The twenty traits assessed by the PCL-R score are:
    • glib and superficial charm
    • grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
    • need for stimulation
    • pathological lying
    • cunning and manipulativeness
    • lack of remorse or guilt
    • shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
    • callousness and lack of empathy
    • parasitic lifestyle
    • poor behavioral controls
    • sexual promiscuity
    • early behavior problems
    • lack of realistic long-term goals
    • impulsivity
    • irresponsibility
    • failure to accept responsibility for own actions
    • many short-term marital relationships
    • juvenile delinquency
    • revocation of conditional release
    • criminal versatility
    Read more: http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html#ixzz4I8qGlhay
     
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  12. undecided

    undecided Member

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    He sounds like a complete narcissist and control freak xx
     
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  13. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    I've just read all the replies and then I read my comments again - you are right, Heidi, I hadn't looked at it that way, he really did baby me!! I often told him I felt like a possession, I felt 'owned', but the way you've simplified it actually is a better description. He still treated me that way at the end, not just the beginning.
    I remember the good and the bad stuff. There never seemed to be any middle ground, he was either extremely good or extremely bad and the change could happen in minutes! I'm not trying to make him a good person by remembering the good stuff, I remember the bad in as much detail, I guess I'm trying to understand those two conflicting personalities. I'm trying to balance things out in my head, by writing stuff here and reading other peoples experiences, suddenly some things become clear, that complete brainwashing lifts a little bit more. I have no hope of ever completely understanding, nobody normal could ever really understand how they work and the things they are capable of, but writing it down, getting other peoples opinions really helps.
    Yes, that bloody visa, arghhhhhh! In the end, his desperation for that visa dominated every conversation. I wasn't trying hard enough, I needed to get advice from an immigration lawyer, I didn't want him here (you're damn right!), it was all my fault. His continuous demands for the visa became an obsession in the end, but it at least confirmed for me what I was for.
    This was truly insane. He'd be giggling hysterically while he was describing my heaven sent future to me. He was spaced out and vacant, he wasn't really there, if that makes sense. These were the moments that frightened me the most, even more than the assaults and punishments. He truly was psycho in these moments, I'd remain completely silent for my own safety. When he'd come out of his trance like state, I'd just go make a coffee or something and on my return to him, he'd be his normal self, like that moment had never happened. It freaked the shit out of me. I have had graphic detail of what he is going to do to my children, he even said I could watch. His jealousy of my children knows no bounds because (1) they were higher than him on my list of special people and (2) they are British nationals and apparently that means they have everything. We had to disappear TOGETHER within Europe after he'd finished with my babies, he had deluded visions of some happy clappy life there, just me, him, the sunshine.....and money just sitting there for the taking. @Anita Hospita, I will reply to you in a minute, I like to really analyse these things. I can't believe I lived that life, that ANY of us lived that life.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  14. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    When does this go though, Anita? I know now that if he knocked on my door, I'd be terrified, but I'd still want to help him! Why? He assaulted me, threatened my children, trashed my stuff, he lied, stole, cheated. He is a psychopath through and through, so why do I still have this want to keep him safe, to know he's ok? I wish for him to suffer, I wish for him to feel as I did....but I'd still help him, the man that wants to kill my children! Why? Why, why, why? It makes no sense to me. Is it maternal instinct? Is because I'm too emphatic? I'm so confused and muddled up.
    I too have read everything I can access, I'm trying to understand, I too can see that he fits perfectly into these categories. But then again, the whys come back? Why did this happen to him? Did he suffer some trauma etc? I want the whys to go, he does not deserve my time, my sympathy, but the need to understand dominates me. By spending my time doing this research and stuff, it keeps him as my focus, he is still indirectly controlling me. I don't want this, I want to move on, but I can't.
    This, I can tick every box! He displays all of these traits. He knows my weaknesses are my children and my soft heart, he abuses these weaknesses of mine. If I block him everywhere, my children suffer again, he knows it's the way to get to me now. We have safeguarded my kids as much as we can, but he creates new accounts, finds different ways. I'm at the end of my tether. I know he will contact me again, I know the sort of words he will use in his message, I know I have to reply for my kids sake, but I despise him, I don't know what to reply with. I guess I'll just have to wait for the moment to arrive and just deal with it then, rather than let it stress me so much. How can the human head be wired like theirs? Maybe silly is right, maybe it is the consequence of all that inbreeding. I just don't know. I wish to God I'd never met him.
     
  15. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Save your maternal instinct for your children :eek: I hope to God that your children never read here in the forum
     
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  16. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    And this, how true is this?!! I was so sleep deprived, I didn't know my own name! These were the moments the pressure was really put on about the visa, while I was tired, dopey, would agree to anything just to be allowed some sleep. Their expertise in manipulating us is truly obscene!
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2016
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  17. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    Heidi, I agree and that's why I feel so angry and frustrated with myself. I need to just release all this confusion that's inside, I need to understand how I can hate someone so much and yet would still help them, only with practical stuff like food etc, but he deserves nothing from me, absolutely nothing. My children deserve my everything, I just want rat to fuck off from inside of my head!
     
  18. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

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    Yes my rat would say to me that he knew me more than I knew myself.. but in fact as much as i thought this was kinda sweet in effect it was him showing his insecurites, he could not figure me out at all.. he was insecure in the relationship, he did not trust me at all, he had a massive brick wall up and would not let anyone break it down. They are incapable of feeling love it is alien to them and does not come naturally. they do know however control. and possessions and this is their biggest fear, I am sure you will have heard many times i need to be secured? This usually means financially and to always forgive me. my wrong doings.

    I do believe that they did have feelings for us? maybe a bit grateful, really I don't know as I like you were babied and taken care of rose petals in the bath etc. I don't know if this was their conscience jabbing at them or again the need for you to be happy but they were incapable of making you happy. you say Bipolar, yes I would say absolutely but they would say I am fed up.. they can have very dark moments times? he wanted everything i had.. I knew my rat from 2004 but just a couple 2009 married in 2010 he came here 2012 and i chucked him out 3 months later.. during this time he tried to alienate me from my family and children drove a wedge this back fired, he said because he could not work he could just did not want to i saw right through him for once but AS MUCH AS HIS VISA WAS CURTAILED I STILL HAVE NOT GOT HIM DEPORTED BUT THE FAT LADY HAS NOT SUNG YET.

    You have a road to go yet, let the spells wear of and you will feel better the less you are in touch with him facebook. whatever the quicker this will be, along the way you will start to hate yourself and be embarrassed , don't be, but is a normal process,

    Exercise saved me, I got my earphones on and pounded the streets and beautiful country i have and made friends along the way. i exhausted myself in order to sleep and eventually the clouds clear both in the sky and my brain and I accepted the fairy story that had been my life. of his making and really was a horror story.i saw my life as a future for the first time and I swore then that I will only go forward and get myself back on track, the unbelievable truth/ memories i had i accepted as all fake and therefore not worth pinning over. I looked at photos/music/memories listened to the music and then I dumped it all. RELIEF IS THE BEST WORD TO DESCRIBE MY FEELINGS, and to be content now and to have piece of mind is fab, I appreciate my life now, my home my country my kids, everything, one day you will as well yes might be a hard road but believe in yourself.. there is no shame in kindness no matter what anyone else might say with different words. your fine believe me.. you have already made your mind up and you will never go back.. yes you will feel lonely and the what ifs. think of the prospects you have, you can do anything you want go out and grab your happiness.. I was shocked one day when i realised i had made a loud noise/ the shock was that i had laughed out loud yes it will come back.
     
  19. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    Do you know something else, something so ridiculously absurd, it messes up inside my head. When he was on his illegal journey through Spain, on his way here to kill my babies and then whisk me off to the wealth and sunsets in Europe, I worried about him!! WTF?? I worried in case he was cold, was he eating properly etc....he was coming here to harm my kids and I was WORRIED about him? I mean seriously, what the hell? How was I so brainwashed? I'd have killed him with my bare hands (still would) if he got within a mile of my kids, so what was that about? I know you probably all feel angry with me when I write this stuff, but I need to say it, I need to let it all out. I guess part of me wants somebody to say, you know what, ****, I was like that too, you are not stupid, you are not a freak. I just can't understand this side of me.
     
  20. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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  21. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    Those are the words I've been searching for, been needing to hear. I hit send on my message and the notification for yours came through. I do hate myself, I feel embarrassed, ashamed, all of it. I just needed to know that this will go away one day, I will not be forever haunted xx
     
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  22. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

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    your not weird at all.. just abused forget all that forgive yourself stop judging yourself and self recriminations.. are a waste of energy and make you crazy. he was your husband you loved him accept this , it is normal to worry about them . now you don't move on, just shows that you now know the difference called healing
     
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  23. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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  24. crystal

    crystal The Punchy Scot

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    Heah girl, you just need to know we are here for you.. that is all just to support advise and not to judge.
     
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  25. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    I never married him! Best thing I never did :)
     
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