Tunisian Law: Child / children / kids with a Tunisian husband or wife

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Ariel

Guest
There was a british mother on TV today (on this morning) and she was tricked by the ex husbands family (after he had been killed in an accident) They made her feel safe and built a relationship with her - then asked her to visit and sign some papers regarding land (they are a wealthy family) These papers were in Arabic and she felt pressured to sign. Once she had done this they boys uncle said "we tricked you - the boy is now ours!"

The boy has made short videos asking for help and saying he is unhappy (and put them on the net) The mother is asking for help from the prime minister. She was only married to this man for a short time (a matter of months) and they were civil because they loved their son. She had remarried and he was fine with that. The problems came after his death.

The family are from Qatar. Seems like the laws there are very similar to Tunisia. This may be a lesson for all who have children and how easily it can be done. Such a sad story.
Disgusting people - how can they live with themselves knowing that all they are doing is causing the boy and his mother misery?
 
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Galadriel

Guest
Yes - she is the one I was refering to in an earlier post, a UK court order is not worth the paper it is written on if the Tunisian courts decide otherwise. This is why you can never be too careful - better to be overly cautious that they are not removed from the UK in the first place than to spend a lifetime trying to get them back :(
Better to not get pregnant in the first place with this scenario hanging over your head.
 
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annabella

Guest
Thats all well and good galadriel but but some of us got pregnant when we thought our marriages were going to last and im sure others will in the future!! Also if this was how everyone ended up thinking then some people could miss out on bringing children into loving marriages where they may end up together forever.

As a person who is in a situation where i am seperated from my husband and i do believe he has plans to take our child in the future then i am also very concerned but i dont regret having my daughter, far from it, even with all the stress this is giving me, i would never change having her in my life. I wouldnt say i would hope people thought twice about pregnancy cos no woman should be denied if its something she really wants, but i would strongly suggest making sure you know your husband as much as you can first, i thought i did, i didnt, but i sure as hell do now!!
 
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marilyna

Guest
I was reading a diet book today, and he talked about committing to the diet. Then said "It is like getting married. Don't commit to marriage unless you know your partner. It is an educated choice, a choice made from both emotion and knowledge."

Sadly, most rat victims don't know the Tunisian men they marry, and leave the getting to know until they are married. In most cases the women are rushed into marriage, and confuse this for the man being head over heels.
 
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Galadriel

Guest
Thats all well and good galadriel but but some of us got pregnant when we thought our marriages were going to last and im sure others will in the future!! Also if this was how everyone ended up thinking then some people could miss out on bringing children into loving marriages where they may end up together forever.

As a person who is in a situation where i am seperated from my husband and i do believe he has plans to take our child in the future then i am also very concerned but i dont regret having my daughter, far from it, even with all the stress this is giving me, i would never change having her in my life. I wouldnt say i would hope people thought twice about pregnancy cos no woman should be denied if its something she really wants, but i would strongly suggest making sure you know your husband as much as you can first, i thought i did, i didnt, but i sure as hell do now!!
Sorry for your situation but I can`t imagine the stress any child goes through in a situation like this, yes we all love our kids and worship the ground they walk on----hopefully. So I would say loud and clear do what you can and think many times about pregnancy. If you are in a precarious situation well I surely do feel for you but it should be a story for others to see what you are expecting to happen.
 
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annabella

Guest
I was reading a diet book today, and he talked about committing to the diet. Then said "It is like getting married. Don't commit to marriage unless you know your partner. It is an educated choice, a choice made from both emotion and knowledge."

Sadly, most rat victims don't know the Tunisian men they marry, and leave the getting to know until they are married. In most cases the women are rushed into marriage, and confuse this for the man being head over heels.
Unfortunatly this is also the case for any marriage you ever enter, no one ever truly knows each other 100%, you can learn things new about each other every day good and bad, thats marriage for you, fair enough tho your going to know someone more that you have been dating for years rather than months, and i am guilty of that x
 
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annabella

Guest
Sorry for your situation but I can`t imagine the stress any child goes through in a situation like this, yes we all love our kids and worship the ground they walk on----hopefully. So I would say loud and clear do what you can and think many times about pregnancy. If you are in a precarious situation well I surely do feel for you but it should be a story for others to see what you are expecting to happen.
Luckily my child is to young to know whats going on at the moment and hopefully it will be resolved in one way or another by the time she can understand. You should always think the worst could happen but i guess we bury our heads in the sand and hope that it changes, well no it doesnt, it gets worse, i know this from experience and when you end up worrying about your childs safety you know for sure you have to get out, a child would be happier with one parent giving them all the love in the world rather than in the middle of world war 3 x
 
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Mona1

Guest
Unfortunatly this is also the case for any marriage you ever enter, no one ever truly knows each other 100%, you can learn things new about each other every day good and bad, thats marriage for you, fair enough tho your going to know someone more that you have been dating for years rather than months, and i am guilty of that x
To be honest, Arabella, even if you have lived with someone for several years before you get married you cannot be 100% sure of them.
 
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annabella

Guest
To be honest, Arabella, even if you have lived with someone for several years before you get married you cannot be 100% sure of them.
Yes but what im saying is you know them a bit more than you do a rat. In marriage you never know your partner 100% never x
 
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Mona1

Guest
Yes but what im saying is you know them a bit more than you do a rat. In marriage you never know your partner 100% never x
If only.....rat, good actor, Tunisian, European... if they want to pull the wool over your eyes they will do. Some only show their true colours long into the marriage. I am not trying to minimise what you are going through as it is awful but what I am trying to say is that you should not beat yourself up that you did not know him. He did not want you to know him properly and even if you had been with him for several years beforehand he still would have probably hidden his true self.
 
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annabella

Guest
If only.....rat, good actor, Tunisian, European... if they want to pull the wool over your eyes they will do. Some only show their true colours long into the marriage. I am not trying to minimise what you are going through as it is awful but what I am trying to say is that you should not beat yourself up that you did not know him. He did not want you to know him properly and even if you had been with him for several years beforehand he still would have probably hidden his true self.
no he did that to me instead :(. I didnt think in my wildest dreams he could think about doing anything like this and this was while we were still together and i was still fighting for the marriage, as we said you never really know anyone, even if they were english it could happen :( x
 
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Ariel

Guest
Luckily my child is to young to know whats going on at the moment and hopefully it will be resolved in one way or another by the time she can understand. You should always think the worst could happen but i guess we bury our heads in the sand and hope that it changes, well no it doesnt, it gets worse, i know this from experience and when you end up worrying about your childs safety you know for sure you have to get out, a child would be happier with one parent giving them all the love in the world rather than in the middle of world war 3 x
I don't think we bury our heads in the sand lovely- I think we try our damndest to preserve a family unit for our children, to have faith in the person we married and to give them every opportunity to put right their wrongs knowing that, if we eventually have to walk away, we do so with conviction, with clarity of mind and in the knowledge that we did everything we possibly could xxx
 
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Galadriel

Guest
But when we marry someone of another nationality as I also, the question always has to be asked about how any children will be dealt with if the marriage does not survive or rather will both parents stay in the same country until the children are of an age to have free choice about where they will go. That is so true none of us can forsee the future but, I did trust this man enough when he said he would never take the children away from me and would remain in the same country to be close to them always. Luckily it has never had to be dealt with Thank God. If I had any cause not to have believed him the relationship would not have continued. Sorry but I can`t see this any other way.
 
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Galadriel

Guest
I truly have every sympathy for any woman put in the terrible position when there is even the slightest chance the children will be taken back to the country of their father but I also think on here we have a duty of care to make it so very clear that it is always a possibility when entering a relationship with a Tunisian man and how the laws of the country work. It is part of the revealing information to the whole question of avoiding "rats" to begin with.
 
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millie

Guest
I know of one Tunisian man left his wife 1 day after getting his ILR leaving behind a 9 mnth old son but vowing to go to court to get access to be able to get him home so his mother and sisters could take care of him. I do not know if he managed to get away with it just the poor woman had no clue he walked away her believing they had a long term marriage also thinking the child had bonded that relationship some will do anything even to their own children to get what and where they want to be. This has be a major factor when considering having children with men from other countries because its a terrible wake up call for both parent it happens to and more importantly the child it affects
 
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marilyna

Guest
Unfortunatly this is also the case for any marriage you ever enter, no one ever truly knows each other 100%, you can learn things new about each other every day good and bad, thats marriage for you, fair enough tho your going to know someone more that you have been dating for years rather than months, and i am guilty of that x
I agree with you, you just never know. My mother told me she didn't know my father after 25 years of marriage!
 
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annabella

Guest
But when we marry someone of another nationality as I also, the question always has to be asked about how any children will be dealt with if the marriage does not survive or rather will both parents stay in the same country until the children are of an age to have free choice about where they will go. That is so true none of us can forsee the future but, I did trust this man enough when he said he would never take the children away from me and would remain in the same country to be close to them always. Luckily it has never had to be dealt with Thank God. If I had any cause not to have believed him the relationship would not have continued. Sorry but I can`t see this any other way.
My husband said the same to me, said he would never take our child away from me, would remain in the same country etc etc, he would still say this if i asked him now, but i know otherwise and i have the proof, im not saying your husband did but i think sometimes we are told things to make us happy and feel safe even if what they have told us in not their intention x
 
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millie

Guest
My daughter has been married now over 6 years they have a son her hubby always says if they ever split he would never take the child away from her he should be with his mother, my question is why would a man come out with a comment like that at all when it was not being discussed at the time. I believe its trying to make the woman feel secure in the fact he will never do it but it makes me thin otherwise and that he would. my daughter at first didnt listen to what I told her about the Tunisian law but not over they years has read up on it all and although she says she loves her husband lives in fear that maybe one day this will happen should anything goes wrong. I can not imagine having to live like that everytime they go to see family being scared that maybe one day she will not be allowed to bring her son home. This is a topic that I am afraid will be raised over and over again when these marriages either fail or have not been genuine on the mens part, so please ladies be very careful, think long and hard if you want to put yourself and your children in this kind of position. Hopefully my son in law is the man who will keep his word i personally do not trust him due to other issues, there are many who out there who are genuine just some are not and these are the ones who will cause misery for many
 
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crazypink

Guest
You know it also happens the other way round :rolleyes: maybe thats why the law was set up how it is in Tunisia........

A young lad we know has been here 7 mths, they have a young son and been married a few years. The wife is muslim (converted) and lived with him for 6mths in Tunisia before they came to the UK. They lived with her wealthy family until he asked that they find their own place together (her family were drinking alot and he wasnt comfortable with it) His wife become ill before they could do this and ended up being sectioned. (She has had previous metal health problems)

He was kicked out of the family home, has not seen his son for 4mths, is now living in a shared house. The family took his passport and accused him of violence (her cousin is a police officer and called at his previous place of work and advised them NOT to employ him!) The home office have now been in touch and told him they believe he is no longer living with his wife!

He has said he would go home but the home office have his passport (so he was told) He is walking 15 miles a day to wash cars at a car wash earning cash-in-hand to feed himself and pay for his room. The local group of Tunisians are now helping him to pay for a solicitor and find out his rights and what is happening with his son. They will not tell him where his wife is or how she is. He has been to may hospitals only to be told they cannot tell him anything.

Until his wife is well enough to sort this out, the family are making his life a nightmare.
 
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NetNiet

Guest
You know it also happens the other way round :rolleyes: maybe thats why the law was set up how it is in Tunisia........

A young lad we know has been here 7 mths, they have a young son and been married a few years. The wife is muslim (converted) and lived with him for 6mths in Tunisia before they came to the UK. They lived with her wealthy family until he asked that they find their own place together (her family were drinking alot and he wasnt comfortable with it) His wife become ill before they could do this and ended up being sectioned. (She has had previous metal health problems)

He was kicked out of the family home, has not seen his son for 4mths, is now living in a shared house. The family took his passport and accused him of violence (her cousin is a police officer and called at his previous place of work and advised them NOT to employ him!) The home office have now been in touch and told him they believe he is no longer living with his wife!

He has said he would go home but the home office have his passport (so he was told) He is walking 15 miles a day to wash cars at a car wash earning cash-in-hand to feed himself and pay for his room. The local group of Tunisians are now helping him to pay for a solicitor and find out his rights and what is happening with his son. They will not tell him where his wife is or how she is. He has been to may hospitals only to be told they cannot tell him anything.

Until his wife is well enough to sort this out, the family are making his life a nightmare.
This is awfull for this man!

I never can understand why parents are divorcing while playing the divorce tru their kids!
A child deserve both parents, doesn't matter if the parents can't get along anymore with eachother in a relationship, they should do what is the best for their child and not for theirselves!
 
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Galadriel

Guest
Well said NetNiet and yes CrazyPink I believe it can happen both ways as you know, myself and my husband know personally some men, two Albanian and one Tunisian two of whom have been affected to a lesser degree in this way.
 
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crazypink

Guest
This is awfull for this man!

I never can understand why parents are divorcing while playing the divorce tru their kids!
A child deserve both parents, doesn't matter if the parents can't get along anymore with eachother in a relationship, they should do what is the best for their child and not for theirselves!
Thing is,,, their marriage is fine! Her mental health means the family are controlling the situation. And she as his sponsor isnt fulfilling the role (maybe her parents were 3rd party sponsors im not sure) but because their daughter is mentally unfit at the moment they are using the situation to remove him from their daughters life!
 
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Galadriel

Guest
This isn`t right either and if her family are drinking alot, well this is a factor against them. We have found that with one of the guys we know he has no knowledge of the law here or legal aid and is so unable to think along those lines saying he has a duty to her even now. I am so sad for him, my husband who sees him every day tries to help but it`s a mans pride to him.
 
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crazypink

Guest
This isn`t right either and if her family are drinking alot, well this is a factor against them. We have found that with one of the guys we know he has no knowledge of the law here or legal aid and is so unable to think along those lines saying he has a duty to her even now. I am so sad for him, my husband who sees him every day tries to help but it`s a mans pride to him.
Makes me so angry! He cannot get legal aid as he has only been here for 7 mths. He is affraid from her family and as they have wealth behind them are holding alot of the cards. Inshallah we find a solicitor to help him and he finds out where he stands with regards to his son.

He really has nothing. And doesnt want to be here without his wife and son.
 
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NetNiet

Guest
Thing is,,, their marriage is fine! Her mental health means the family are controlling the situation. And she as his sponsor isnt fulfilling the role (maybe her parents were 3rd party sponsors im not sure) but because their daughter is mentally unfit at the moment they are using the situation to remove him from their daughters life!
:eek: how can her parents act like this?!
Is it known how the daughter so his wife thinks about him and their marriage, does she still oves him and want to be married with him?
If so than her parents are not acting in her way of thinking aswell.
Is the husband able to see his wife?
 
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crazypink

Guest
:eek: how can her parents act like this?!
Is it known how the daughter so his wife thinks about him and their marriage, does she still oves him and want to be married with him?
If so than her parents are not acting in her way of thinking aswell.
Is the husband able to see his wife?
Their marriage was fine before her breakdown. Her parents are wealthy and by the sounds of it do not like the fact she converted and that she married this man.

I think they want control of the child and daughter and while she is ill they are able to do this.

He hasnt seen his wife or son for 4 mths - since she was taken into hospital and he was kicked out of the home.
 
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NetNiet

Guest
Their marriage was fine before her breakdown. Her parents are wealthy and by the sounds of it do not like the fact she converted and that she married this man.

I think they want control of the child and daughter and while she is ill they are able to do this.

He hasnt seen his wife or son for 4 mths - since she was taken into hospital and he was kicked out of the home.
This is so sad!!!

Isn't there a way that he gets free legal support ot by paying a small fee?
I'm wondering if he will be able to go to a judge and ask temporarily full custody for his child, untill his wife is better, what his chances will be...........
 
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crazypink

Guest
This is so sad!!!

Isn't there a way that he gets free legal support ot by paying a small fee?
I'm wondering if he will be able to go to a judge and ask temporarily full custody for his child, untill his wife is better, what his chances will be...........
He cannot get any help with legal expenses. People at the Mosque are now helping him with money for this.

The wifes mother is now saying the child is at the hospital with the mother.

Its all so frustrating.
 
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NetNiet

Guest
CP, I did search, not sure if it helps, but I searched for legal help for people who have no right at legal help in another way.

I did read that there are some law centres who give free legal aid:
http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/

If he needs help with his immigration: (you have to scroll down a little bit to the immigration part)
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/GettingLegalAdvice/Gettinglegaladviceandlegalaid/DG_195341

There are also a lot of Pro Bono laywers / organisations in the UK who might help, you can search for excample at google for:
Pro Bono solicitor UK
Pro Bono laywer UK
you can even search by adding the name of the place where he lives, to it.
 
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