Tunisian Men - read this! Come to Europa!

Discussion in 'Rat Behavior' started by Etoyoc, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    This isn't a simple case of "title bait" but Oh well, let's just leave at that, but keep in mind not all of us are love rats/ wannabe immigrants.
     
  2. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    You scoreed 100 points in the area of "does not understand irony and sarcasm" and another 100 in the area of "if not understood, jump on it anyway because it sounds discriminating". :)

    "Poor" has nothing to do with backwards, poor is the opposite of rich and there are rich and poor people in Tunisia as well as in other countries.
    "Uncivilized" has nothing to do with backwards either, you would be surprised how many uncivilized people live in Europe.
     
    Arkady, Heidi and FoolInLove like this.
  3. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    And another 100 points for not being able to spot the correct gender. You really sum up your score tonight, sister!
     
    Big Bang Theory, Heidi and FoolInLove like this.
  4. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Yes, it actually was, seriously. :)
     
    Big Bang Theory and Heidi like this.
  5. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    yes I know but what I meant was that typical "title baits" don't lead to a certain category of readers getting offended, because being addressed in the same way as a lazy scum sure does grind one's gears ;)
     
  6. keepsmiling

    keepsmiling Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    147
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25630036 dont forget to let them know no benefits for at least 5 years after arrival your on your own paying tax insurace housing costs gas electris, phone travel expenses , or fuel for car insurace road tax applying for uk driving licience ,income tax poll tax ,then they have to prove they can live wk and communicate in uk
    this test is paid for ...
     
    Arkady likes this.
  7. keepsmiling

    keepsmiling Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Messages:
    129
    Likes Received:
    147
    your little graph is being very generous :D
     
  8. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Define "good education". Good education for Tunisia where large parts of university education target work in the official sector afterwards? Good education in that universities are equipped, in the most science oriented areas, with sometimes old and substandard equipment? I have visited some, I was not overly impressed. :)

    Let's be serious about this - do you really have an idea on which level the competition, eg. from the US, from Japan, India, China or Germany is (depending on the science the rank varies, this is just an example)? Why, do you think, are some master studies from tunisia recognized only as a bachelor in some countries? Why is the bacchalaureat not equal to a 12th degree school examination eg. in Germany?

    I do not say the education is BAD, but I am saying that the education in Tunisia is not ona par level with the same edcuation in some other countries - and that a good grade in an examination in tunisia does not mean that this grade will be considered even in another country.

    You also need to understand that all humans are equal, but not all education is equal, not all talents are equal either. Did you check eg. on the PISA ratings of tunisian schools? They are quite at the lower end of the scales, which does not mean the education are bad per se (and not whether or not there is a genius amongst them), but they are worse than that of other countries. You will certainly be aware of the discussion in Tunisia itself about the quality of university and school education, aren't you?

    The job market in European countries is, depending on the country, very different from Tunisia and that an hairdresser or tailor from tunisia has simply next to no chance of work, when, at the same time, scores of hairdressers and tailors in europe are jobless. What significance will have a law education of tunisia in the UK? What significance has an insurance education of tunisia in Germany? Or a teacher education? Right - almost none, because there are enough people who were educated IN those countries and even they don't have a job.

    If, and I stress "IF" someone will find work, it will be paid low, probably less than the person who one is replacing. Europeans do not work in those jobs because they are dirty or have no status - NO, they don't work in those jobs because the pay won't allow to make a LIVING OF THEM! So, they orient themselves to jobs that need even higher education, some not even existing in Tunisia, let alone the education for them - which gives? Low paying jobs = foreigners, good paying jobs = Europeans. Make no mistake, in 90% of all cases this is the truth, the reality.
     
    Arkady, Npk, Heidi and 1 other person like this.
  9. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    It worked for you, didn't it? :)
     
    Laurence, Heidi and KhalilK like this.
  10. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Well, that put the UK off the map for migrant workers. :) ... and countries like Germany or France right in the middle. :(
     
    Heidi likes this.
  11. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Sounds quite tunisian to me. :)
     
    Sillygirl55 and Heidi like this.
  12. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Then let me put it this way: Many Tunisians like to have no boss, most europeans do not like to have no boss. A typical cultural difference.

    Apart from that, and taking the socio-economic situation into account: You'd better try to get into a job that is secure in that you will keep it for long - getting money each month beats getting a lot of money for a few months and then nothing for years...

    You know, I was going to open up businesses in tunisia once, but after a careful consideration of the situation, I didn't. There are a lot of things one can do in Tunisia starting right now, even with little or without any money at all and reap thousands each month - and still, I didn't do it and won't do it in the forseeable future. The reason? Administration and economy policy, it simply is not worth the effort when I can do the same somewhere else much easier and faster - and have investment and design/idea copyright guarantee for many years to come. Let alone that money is getting less (looses value) each month just from being in Tunisia. :)
     
    Heidi likes this.
  13. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Without going into detail - no, it's not. In many cases, a business can be run better in another country (becaue there you are in demand, in your home country, there is a lot of native competition...) Of course it depends on the type of business (you might want to remember this: teaching people how to use something earns more than selling something to people, and equipping people with something they need to do something is better than doing it yourself - and one more: the best business is always the one that you fund completely yourself and expand completely from itself). :)
     
    Laurence, Big Bang Theory and Heidi like this.
  14. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Messages:
    12,594
    Likes Received:
    37,668
    Good morning :coffee:

    I see, El Matador fetched his babysitter ;)

    babyvogel.gif
     
    surf and HappyDreamer like this.
  15. Big Bang Theory

    Big Bang Theory Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    11,220
    I don't see the problem?? This thread is aimed at Tunisians who want to come to Europe (whether they be rats or not) - The aim of this thread is to explain the reality of living in Europe it is not accusing anyone of being a rat
     
    Npk, ExNorway, Laurence and 4 others like this.
  16. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    I don't know how to respond to that given how childish it is so I'll just pretend I didn't see it :)

    Not all Tunisian men want to come to Europe, I didn't say the post is accusing anyone of being a rat but it puts ALL Tunisian men in the same category. I was just pointing out that the title should be more specific but the writer has already told me it was a "title bait" the kind you put in newspapers/magazines to get readers attention, so yeah it's all set now :)
     
    Big Bang Theory likes this.
  17. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2009
    Messages:
    12,594
    Likes Received:
    37,668
    I´m tremendously sorry that my sense of humour has offended your utter lack of it feile.gif
     
  18. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    haha, now THAT was funny ;) Kudos to you :)
     
  19. Mona1

    Mona1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,614
    Likes Received:
    5,308
     
  20. Mona1

    Mona1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2009
    Messages:
    1,614
    Likes Received:
    5,308
    I have not been on here for many years but do dip in and out every now and again. I decided to reactivate my account for one more message as this is a thread I feel I can contribute to.

    Khalil, I understand completely where you are coming from with your comments but, on the other hand, agree with the others. I have lived in Tunisia, have been visiting for more years than you have been alive, am married to a Tunisian, have Tunisian friends (female) who live in both Tunisia and Europe and feel I am competent to comment.

    I have not met a Tunisian, male or female, who does not think that life is better for them in Europe. No, not all want to come here but whilst they are in Tunisia some, not all, have warped ideas of what Europe can offer. My friend, who lives in Europe, despairs of her family who think she is swimming in money. She constantly says they do not understand the stresses and high cost of living here in Europe - which is exactly what the original poster was wanting to get across. I, personally, have spoken to Tunisians, mostly male in these cases, who just will not believe that it is stressful here and that we don't have much money left at the end of the day. Some have even used the "Mediterranean" route and are now not able to get good jobs and are at the mercy of those who are legally in the countries and who are using and abusing them. If they manage to escape the black market jobs, they might end up in prison or living in terrible conditions, scrabbling for jobs.

    Yes, our standards of living are good here but boy do most of us work hard for it. One Tunisian that I know has ended up working 60-70 hours a week in a low paid job. In Tunisia he was working 30-40 for, relatively speaking, the same pay. Is he happy now? I don't know but he has learnt the hard way.

    Not all Tunisians are rats, thank God, and I know many, many very good people in Tunisia. Yes, it has a lot to do with their education and perception of what they want. Not all those who want to come to Europe/the West are rats. Sometimes there are circumstances back home that we Westerners cannot comprehend and never will.

    We, in the West, are quick to judge and to say this and that makes someone bad (I am NOT taking about bezness which is abhorrent) but often marriages break down due to the pressures that the original poster has highlighted. Many of these young boys come to the West with totally unrealistic ideas of what they will find here. The girl they have married is NOT what they thought (how could she be when the common language is often not fluent on his part), she does not conform to what many want from a wife (yes many still expect you to be more traditional than we women are in the West) and she sees his traditional ways as controlling and unrealistic. This is has a lot to do with culture differences and expectations that many do not bother to look into before they get married. This does NOT, in my opinion, depend on their educational level but on their background. It also has nothing to do with them having worked in tourism, so get that idea out of your minds immediately! Rat is rat regardless but cultural differences can break the marriage as fast, too.

    Working here in the West is difficult enough for us Europeans, finding good work, dealing with the stresses and expectations of our bosses and we grew up here. How tough and depressing (considering the weather, too) must it be for someone who has believed that their future is secured and they will be able to help their families in the future only to find it was all baloney? I think that the OP (original poster), is right to point out these things but sadly they probably will not be believed. Why? The "face" of those who are here and hiding the fact that life is not what they thought. There will always be one or two who do really well and it is these success stories that they hold onto.

    It is not a phenomenon that is solely a monopoly of the Tunisians, it is something that people in all developing countries and those with travel restrictions (like Tunisia) share. Maybe we, in the West, should look at how we portray ourselves in the media and when we are on holiday to try and address the situation.

    !
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2015
    Arkady, Sillygirl55, Npk and 5 others like this.
  21. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    845
    Likes Received:
    1,422
    Well, that was an interesting discussion, but let me cut it short now by pointing out something fundamental.

    It was you, only you, who read "ALL Tunisian men", because the title just says "Tunisian men". So, what you tried, is this: you interpret, in your mind, a sentence, make it look like this interpretation is the fact and then attack someone for something he didn't say, but what only you thought he has said respectively what you want everyone else to think he has said. This method is often used in religious and ideologic discussions.
     
    Npk, Heidi and Big Bang Theory like this.
  22. Big Bang Theory

    Big Bang Theory Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    11,220
    Just curious but does anyone know if this method has a name? I see it being used far too much, often by manipulators/narcissists and I would like to put a name to it
     
    Npk and Heidi like this.
  23. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    No one is attacking anyone, at least from my end.

    What you are describing is "The Strawman Fallacy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) which is a logical fallacy that can be used in any discussion.

    The title says "Tunisian men read this" and then it goes on saying "You" "You" and "You" so obviously it's normal for me to feel targeted by it since the writer didn't make it clear that he was speaking about certain types of people.
    Let's just note that in all serious, professional and responsible writings dealing with similar subjects, a disclaimer is added, saying that exceptions exist and this should be taken with a grain of salt.
     
  24. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    26
    Big Bang Theory likes this.
  25. Big Bang Theory

    Big Bang Theory Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    3,186
    Likes Received:
    11,220
    Thanks :thumbsup:
     
    KhalilK likes this.

Share This Page