Tunisian Men - read this! Come to Europa!

Discussion in 'Rat Behavior' started by Etoyoc, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    What Is a Straw Man Argument?

    It's a way of misrepresenting your opponent's position.

    It's as if you took a flaming scarecrow, threw it onto the debate floor, yelled “Look, it's my opponent's dangerous straw man,” and then you appeared to save the day by dousing the flames with water. All while your opponent mutters, “That's not my straw man. What just happened?”
     
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  2. Big Bang Theory

    Big Bang Theory Well-Known Member

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    The title says 'Tunisian Men - read this! Come to Europa!' therefore it's reasonable to assume that anyone taking the time to read it would have some desire to 'come to Europe'.

    The 'certain type of people' that the writer is speaking about/to is:- those who have a desire to come to Europe.
    (and yes, in particular, Tunisian men because this site is primarily about a section of the male Tunisian community, but the article itself is not aimed solely at beznessers - If you read more on this site you will see that there are several threads discussing Tunisia that are not Bezness related)

    Ergo, when It says 'you' it is referring to the person who is reading it who presumably has some desires to go to Europe.

    Why would you feel 'targeted' ?? It is simply an information piece giving facts about migrating to and living in Europe for those who are considering doing so.....

    .
     
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  3. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    Information pieces don't have a condescending tone, a simple note saying "If you want to come to Europe read this" is better than saying "If you're Tunisian read this"
     
  4. MH007

    MH007 Moderator Staff Member

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    @KhalilK

    This forum is specifically about Tunisians though so I don't get why you are making a big deal about the title of this thread.

    If you take time to read the forums you will note we have Tunisian members and members very happily married to a Tunisian.

    ;)
     
  5. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    @MH007 I am not making a big deal out of anything, I was just making a point. That's it :)
     
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  6. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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  7. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

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    And, btw, the method in which one is jumping to a completely different argument, once the first cannot be used anymore, has a name as well. :)
     
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  8. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

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    No, the opposite is correct. The method that you describe crept in somewhen around the end of the 90s, it is a part of doublespeak, newspeak, and political correct speak.
    It has, in fact, tarnished communication in wide parts. In a SERIOUS discussion, people exercise common sense and try to understand an argument as it is meant rather than putting the most efforts into figuring out, how it could be understood wrong.

    Since the times when discussion degraded from an exchange of information, academical discurse and common efforts for solution finding into exchange of phrases and fighting for king of the hill status, people are compelled to make sure that even the worst meaning person is not being able to deliberately misunderstand what is being said, done or shown - oh, and the american law system played a good role in this as well. From then, the deformation of language and discussion jumped to other countries and has gained a lot of momentum.
     
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  9. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Yeah :D

     
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  10. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    hmmmm So the diversity of arguments is not permitted?

    The point: The title is too broad.

    Argument N°1: Not all Tunisian are rats.

    Response: Yes, but Tunisians want to come to Europe, the post is directed to them and not only rats.

    Argument N°2: Still, not all Tunisians want to come to Europe, the title is still too broad.

    Let's not argue over semantics and agree that "Tunisian men who want to come to Europe- read this" is a suitable title.
     
  11. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Helloooooo, what about the tunisian women ?

    What about equal rights :whistle:
     
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  12. FoolInLove

    FoolInLove Well-Known Member

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    Since i dont know you - i have no idea if you wanna live here or not. I only know 1 Tunisian and he definitely had an idea that life was much better here! And a lot of his friends is already in Europe.
    And he had NO idea about the expences we have here. Thats for sure! And who called you dump shit btw???
     
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  13. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    Won't feed the trolls hahaha
     
  14. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Dear Khalil, I just answered Etoyocs question in that post :p
     
  15. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    I know, and not feeding the trolls is a golden rule when it comes to forum discussions :p
     
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  16. Heidi

    Heidi The Sleuth

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    Aw, sometimes we like to play a bit with really cool nerds ;)
     
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  17. KhalilK

    KhalilK Member

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    Awww, that's cute, feel free ;)
     
  18. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

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    Fact: The title does not quantify in any way, any attempt to call it "broad" is an argument out of place that does not even need to be considered.
    Again - there is no quantification of any kind. No new argument, not even hunderds, will put something into it that isn't there.
     
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  19. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, good point - as the author, I can answer that. The number of tunisian women who actually come to Europe is quite small, and this is not only true for women from Tunisia, but from everywhere - migrant workers are, in the majority of cases, male and in the age span of 16-40. They also usually come from other reasons and by other means than the male counterparts, an article aimed at women would have a completely different approach and focus.
     
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  20. Etoyoc

    Etoyoc Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn't, not in this general words - the costs are, de facto, only less if an European lives exactly like a Tunisian, but the different habits and values will make this in most cases not the reality. If an European wants to live in Tunisia like he is used to it from his home country (well, the countries are different in Europe, so in some cases this is more or less true) he will have to pay (at least) the same amount of money in Tunisia.

    The only less expensive areas are 1) housing, but cheaper husing goes with a lower quality as well, the same level of quality cost at least the same in Tunisia and 2) everything that has to do with manual work, but again, in most cases, cheap labor has cheap results, if you want to have a high quality, you pay almost the same as eg. in Germany and 3) cigarettes, Tunisia is a paradise for smokers, that is correct!

    As for all other areas, they are the same price or even more expensive (or less expensive, but an European is has the habit to use more of it, eg. electricity or water, so the end costs are the same).

    The other way around, it is similar - a tunisian can live inexpensive in Europe, only when he lives there like he is used to it from Tunisia, if he lives like an European, he will have to pay the same. However, in most (though not all) cases, they will send money to Tunisia, either to support someone or to save it to build up something after their definite return, which will decrease the amount of available money even more.
     
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  21. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    Probably the best post, up there with Wallah's coping strategy, that I have ever read on this site!! The costs need to be higher now, as this was written early 2014, but wow, spot on perfect and so fantastically worded! Every rat needs to read this.
     
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  22. Mango Chutney

    Mango Chutney Well-Known Member

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    No words, I have no words :D:D:D:D:D:D
     
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  23. AmberHeart

    AmberHeart Lady Amberheart of Gafsa

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    Loved it!
     
  24. Arkady

    Arkady Well-Known Member

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    And there is no guarantee that the business will not go belly up or the economy will remain good. In either case, businesses will close and/or people get laid off, usually with those having less seniority getting let go first. And even if you get unemployment, it doesn’t last forever and you need to prove you are looking for work to keep those benefits; assuming you are eligible in the first place.
     
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  25. Arkady

    Arkady Well-Known Member

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    Many immigrants that come to the states are also prepared to work hard to build a future. They don’t come here expecting to have everything handed to them,
     
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