What is marriage to a Tunisian?

ExNorway

Junior Rat Expert
I'm exasperated reading this thread.
Just checking - HE IS A TYPICAL RAT
Stop wasting everyone's time by pretending otherwise.
Nothing to do with different value systems, just rat behaviour.
Good luck to you, you are in for some painful times
Well that's not a Bomb, but the bottom line, yes!
 

Kalas

Well-Known Member
Jc,

I get that you want to judge the man you know ( no one else here knows him) on the person and not some objective label that dehumanises him.

But..... He's being abusive towards you!

Starting a fight with your partner and threatening to end the relationship because they won't give you what they want? That's manipulative and emotionally abusive.

It seems to me your trying to make cultural exceptions for him.

A good man is a good man the world over.

You don't need a PhD in tunisian culture to know your fiance needs a good boot in the balls!

Sorry love
And hope things get better for u with or without him
Xxx
 
N

N. Amany

Guest
Oh dear......
Let me tell you this : I am married and live together with my tunisian husband for more than 7 years now and still, when I'm in Europe for an holiday (as I actually am) my husband will NEVER touch the small amount of my own money I keep hidden in our house for exceptional or urgent situations (although I told him to do so if necessary), even if this would mean that he would be eating only bread with some oïl... THAT'S what a decent tunisian man does: NEVER EVER ASK FOR MONEY FROM HIS WIFE, because this would make him loose his face and mean that he's NOT A GOOD MAN!

What is marriage to a tunisian man? If your tunisian man is a decent one, it's about the same to him as to ANY OTHER DECENT MAN in the world!
So Correct !!!!!!!!!!!
 
N

N. Amany

Guest
Yes, it is abuse. It's unacceptable and I have told him so. We are not speaking.

I don't need strength to stand up to him - however well-meaning it is. I also don't need coping strategies. I don't need to be told that he is a rat. I don't believe he is a rat. He is a person who is responsible for his own behaviour. I believe that all the "rat" generalisations that are coming out now in this thread are unhelpful.

What I do believe is that I need to better understand our different value systems, whether they are cultural, or personal. From what Laurence and Wallah have said, it sounds like his value system does not come from Tunisian culture. It sounds, from what Wallah has said, that his value system is a bit fucked up. I tend to agree that it is.
:confused:...:confused:...:eek:...:sick:...:(...:speechless:...:coffee:
 
W

WomenBeWise

Guest
I
I've reached the conclusion that my fiance is not a rat. Our problem is that we seem to have very different value systems. He does not value emotional support, talking through his problems with me, or even companionship when things are rough for him. The only thing he values from me is money.

So when things are tough for him (no food in the fridge, no job, can't pay his rent) he asks everyone he knows for money, and when they don't come up trumps he demands it from me. When I refuse he tells me every European woman "helps their relationship" by giving money. He can't understand why I "choose" not to help him.

I'm on a low income and have almost bankrupted myself spending £2k on a recent visit that I cut short but am still now paying for. He knows this, yet he still insists that I have money and should help him. "What is £40 to you?" is the sort of thing he says. "Would you throw away our relationship for £40?". I get threats, bullying, the whole nine yards. I have told him this is unacceptable, and I won't be bullied.

The whole experience is making me think: our value systems are different. He values financial security, and I value emotional support and mutual respect. Fundamentally, what I want from a marriage and what he wants is not the same.

So here's my question: am I expecting too much? Should I lower my expectations because I am with a poor Tunisian? (I'm guessing that wealthy Tunisians don't have this desperate need for cash.) Should I accept that there will be times when I have to fork over the cash regardless of my beliefs?

Our Western concept of marriage as a meeting of equals is fairly new historically, and unheard of in most cultures around the world. Historically marriage has been for combining wealth, land, joining families, settling debts, having babies to continue the species... basically anything but love.

Where is modern Tunisia on that spectrum? And does everything change when the woman in the relationship comes from the West?
XX
I'm new to this site and am going through (historic) threads.

You are indeed correct. Tunisians care far less about love and more about a match that brings social advancement for the whole family. Why do you think so many married men have mistresses here? Because their brides were selected and not chosen by the heart.

At the risk of duplicating comments, under Islamic law the man MUST provide and care for his wife/offspring.

In most cases, even with more Tunisian women at work the man still maintains the household and the wife will keep or use HER money for clothes, hair and personal items.

Finally, yes there IS high unemployment especially amongst men 35 and younger. However, there is opportunity for the creative and extra money can be made. Just walking around and asking can bring results - security, cleaners, shop assistants, servers etc. I've seen many a sign in a window "help wanted". Sitting around all day in a coffee shop produces zero results!

Case in point. My local car wash.. the owner is 30. He left school early. Worked 4 tedious menial jobs back to back for years. Saved up, opened a car wash business and grew it to include car hire.

My Tunisian friend (29) is a language teacher and can't find work here so went to Libya (and yes it gets bombed). He's obliged to support his elderly parents. But he never moans, never asks me for money and beavers away in the background trying to find more work.

There are job agencies here and jobs advertised on line!!

I also know young boys and grown men who simply make bread and sell it outside shops, or at the toll roads. Or second hand goods. I respect them for their enterprise and the fact that they are proud enough not to beg.

Emotional support/expressing your feelings etc I think not with this man. It's a one way street - his street!

My words are probably pointless and too late but I hope that they, and all the other sensible comments will help other women catch up in the "rat trap".
 
S

sarahhhhh

Guest
I should add that when he told me about his current situation I wanted to help. This isn't the first time we have fought about money, and last time we fought we agreed that he should be able to discuss his financial problems with me without me offering him money, so as hard as it was to hear that he was going hungry, I didn't offer him the £40. I listened to him and gave him emotional support, and encouraged him to ask the men in his family for help.

It was the next day that things turned ugly. He texted me out of the blue saying "You won't help me will you?" and he picked a very nasty fight. That is when he tried to bully me into giving him the money, threatened to leave, told me I needed to buck up my ideas if I ever wanted to keep a man... basically he let me have both barrels, and no warning shot - he just launched straight in.

We're not speaking at the moment as I have asked him to think carefully about all of this. I consider the fight to have been completely unprovoked and unacceptable. He apologised afterwards, saying he is angry with his family and he didn't know what he was saying, but that is not good enough for me. It is easy to apologise for bad behaviour after the fact and for it to mean nothing and change nothing. This is becoming a pattern for us and I am stopping it before it becomes ingrained - fight, apologise, act nice until the next time when the fight is nastier and the cycle starts again.

I told him what I have written above about marriage - and that he needs to think about whether he wants to be with me for who I am and value having me in his life, or whether he wants to own me and he thinks marriage to me is about sharing my assets and me always giving him what he demands.

I'm waiting for an answer from him, but I'm not holding my breath.
a rat a rat a rat.....noone in Tunisia goes hungry...its a lie...even the website about bezness say noone in Tunisia is starving or homeless
 
S

sarahhhhh

Guest
And has led to sweeping generalisations?

I note that now Laurence has even edited her post to say that my fiance is a rat! :mad:

Honestly, it's very hard to talk to anyone when they are so quick to make sweeping generalisations and to attach labels to people. As I said at the start this is why I stick to hypotheticals. People may think that they are helping by pointing out the obvious, but the general assumption is that I am being an idiot! I am not! I'm not looking to excuse his behaviour - I am looking to understand it and discuss it. This happens to be a very important part of the process for me, and one that is near fucking impossible to do with any of you! Have you ever had a conversation like this with anyone where you have said "he's a rat" and they have said "Oh, you're right. I hadn't considered that possibility before. Off I pop now to finish my relationship based entirely on being told by strangers that it is fucked up."

Share the facts, share your experiences, and let me decide for myself. Don't lecture me on how I should react.
then please why are you on a forum about rats
 

mezoo

The Decider
a rat a rat a rat.....noone in Tunisia goes hungry...its a lie...even the website about bezness say noone in Tunisia is starving or homeless
True. Very true and often overlooked. Those we speak of here are not out for that. The man being discussed in this thread will normally be violent if one marries to him. Be aware.
 

Etoyoc

Junior Rat Expert
Why do you think so many married men have mistresses here? Because their brides were selected and not chosen by the heart.
No, the reason is much simplier: It is because they can ... and tuniian women are not pure angels in this regard either. :)

At the risk of duplicating comments, under Islamic law the man MUST provide and care for his wife/offspring. In most cases, even with more Tunisian women at work the man still maintains the household and the wife will keep or use HER money for clothes, hair and personal items.
It is actually the tunisian secular law that stipulates this. A woman has only to contribute to the household expenses if her wealth or wage allows for that. This last sentence was, btw, not put into the law to propagate equality (as in men and women have to contribute both), but because the men complained that they have to maintain the woman even when she is rich. :)

Finally, yes there IS high unemployment especially amongst men 35 and younger.
What is far more interesting is that the unemployment of academics is in the area of 30% and the unemployment of uneducated (help workers) is below 10% - showing that the tunisian education system is educating not according to their needs, but to produce the highest possible number of diplomas, not to speak about the fact that the education system is state-work-oriented, meaning they mainly educate people to work in the state sector.

However, there is opportunity for the creative and extra money can be made. Just walking around and asking can bring results - security, cleaners, shop assistants, servers etc. I've seen many a sign in a window "help wanted". Sitting around all day in a coffee shop produces zero results!
Absolutely - there is always help wanted in the agricultural sector or in road construction, it will pay 10, 15 and up to 20 Dinars/day.

Case in point. My local car wash.. the owner is 30. He left school early. Worked 4 tedious menial jobs back to back for years. Saved up, opened a car wash business and grew it to include car hire.

My Tunisian friend (29) is a language teacher and can't find work here so went to Libya (and yes it gets bombed). He's obliged to support his elderly parents. But he never moans, never asks me for money and beavers away in the background trying to find more work.

There are job agencies here and jobs advertised on line!!

I also know young boys and grown men who simply make bread and sell it outside shops, or at the toll roads. Or second hand goods. I respect them for their enterprise and the fact that they are proud enough not to beg.

Emotional support/expressing your feelings etc I think not with this man. It's a one way street - his street!

My words are probably pointless and too late but I hope that they, and all the other sensible comments will help other women catch up in the "rat trap".[/QUOTE]
 

mezoo

The Decider
Finally, yes there IS high unemployment especially amongst men 35 and younger. However, there is opportunity for the creative and extra money can be made. Just walking around and asking can bring results - security, cleaners, shop assistants, servers etc. I've seen many a sign in a window "help wanted".
Sitting around all day in a coffee shop produces zero results! ".
the unemployment of uneducated (help workers) is below 10% -
there is always help wanted in the agricultural sector or in road construction, it will pay 10, 15 and up to 20 Dinars/day.
the less educated have the greatest sense of entitlement has been my experience. no one wants to work "marumma". friend of mine has very difficult time keeping his olive oil production facility fully staffed and the same goes for construction, even with paying bonus money.
 

crystal

The Punchy Scot
the less educated have the greatest sense of entitlement has been my experience. no one wants to work "marumma". friend of mine has very difficult time keeping his olive oil production facility fully staffed and the same goes for construction, even with paying bonus money.
lazy bastards!!
 

Tiger

Junior Rat Expert
Maybe if u do not like the word =rat= We can use another word, ABUSER. He paly the besnez game. The game of fighting,Silent treatment, u are not for me, i leave u, telling u about all the "good" touristwomen who give her husband his dream. U are right in one thing. It is not ur duthy to feed his family. That is his douthy. But he also have a obligation for u!!! He should first see to that u if u are marriage have what u need. Sombody in this conversation say something very true here!!! They sit in the coffie and discuss what to expect from the Europeen woman!!! If u not are a "good" touristwoman , they sit there and give advise how to treat the stubbern woman. And the conclution is" she not help in ur bad situation!!??? She come only to use u for sex!!!! they are so narrow minded!!! Ask urself... do u want to live like this? bcoz it will never end. And most of all....what kind of love is this
 

Mango Chutney

Moderator
Staff member

Laura2014

Moderator
Staff member
I don't understand how the above quote could be written in the same post as the following quotes:
Not read this thread before either. I’d love to know what happened. It rang so many bells. “Why you won’t give when you have. I ask for one thousand dollars, you talk like one million. One thousand is nothing to you my love, you have plenty why you won’t give and make me happy”!

I hope she dumped him.
 

Mango Chutney

Moderator
Staff member
Not read this thread before either. I’d love to know what happened. It rang so many bells. “Why you won’t give when you have. I ask for one thousand dollars, you talk like one million. One thousand is nothing to you my love, you have plenty why you won’t give and make me happy”!

I hope she dumped him.
Yes, I must admit.....I thought of you the instant I read that part!! :D:D Isn't it just crazy? Initially, I felt sure it must be a joke....I had to read the OP twice! :eek:
 

Judithlyn

Senior Rat Expert
Yes, here we are about 4 years later! Did she marry him? Did he break her heart, self-confidence, bank account, ties to real family and friends? I would really love to hear how she is doing!
 
Top